AD Compliance

[Chris Bopp]

Hello,

My other half and I are interested in purchasing a Vintage Mooney and noticed a couple of ADs that have to be addressed every 100hrs. I am in need of a plane that I can build about 200-300hrs (50-60 hrs/month) and then <10hrs/month there after to keep down the road for family. Below I have listed the ADs along with questions: 

1) 73-21-01 lubricating flight control and landing gear

2) 76-07-12 ignition switch check

Questions

1) Roughly how much for both AD fixes cost me every 100hrs (including labor) pre annual? 

2) Since I plan to fly a lot within 6 months to get my hours, is getting a vintage model worth the “hassle” of these 2 ADs? How long does the process take for these ADs to be complied? What’s the downtime? 

3) Are there any other ADs that I may have missed that need to be addressed? 
 

Thank you in advance! 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Chris Bopp

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Chris...

These things often get covered by a few threads...the search will expose plenty of detail if the situation is serious...

The Bendix ignition switch is kind of serious... they wear out over 50years.   So replacing it with a new one, your grandkids will have to go through the same effort... 

I’m not sure how lubricating things became an AD... often controls get lubricated at the annual...

You may want to be a little more specific about which model plane you are considering... if able.

There are so few recurring ADs to contend with... one prop comes with an annoyance fee...

Go Mooney!

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

If you're not familiar Chris, there are several famous items unique to our great Mooney airplanes that should be considered when contemplating a purchase.  All that stuff is likely to follow along in this post.  Enjoy the ride and welcome to the wonderful world of all things Mooney !

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Chris Bopp said:

Hello,

My other half and I are interested in purchasing a Vintage Mooney and noticed a couple of ADs that have to be addressed every 100hrs. I am in need of a plane that I can build about 200-300hrs (50-60 hrs/month) and then <10hrs/month there after to keep down the road for family. Below I have listed the ADs along with questions: 

1) 73-21-01 lubricating flight control and landing gear

2) 76-07-12 ignition switch check

 

#2 is a non-issue and can be performed by the pilot.   Essentially sometime during idle operation turn both mags of momentarily, just to make sure it cuts ignition off completely.   You, as the pilot/owner, can then log compliance to the AD.   It is rare that AD compliance can be logged by the owner/operator, but this one allows it.   You're correct that it needs to be done at least every 100 hours.   Mooneys aren't the only airplanes with these ignition switches, and they all have this AD.   It's a small thing and compliance is easy to check and log.

If you really, really, want to get around that AD, you can replace the switch with something else, like the non-keyed ignition switches with start button.

I'm not as familiar with #1, but I don't think it's a big deal, either.   Usually the one people complain about is the periodic eddy current inspection on prop hubs.   If the airplane you're interested in doesn't have that, then you're probably good. 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by EricJ

[PT20J]

Also, later ignition switches with 4-digit date codes are not subject to the AD. 

 

[Guest]

Depending on which model you’re considering there may be other ADs as well, fuel injection lines and clamps each 100-110, control wheels shaft each 500 to name a few.

Clarence

[Chris Bopp]

We’re looking at a couple of 1965-1970 M20Cs, but also a G. I know the lubricating AD wouldn’t be too much of an issue after the first 6 months when we will be flying the plane a lot since we will probably fly it less than 100 hours a year and can get it done for the annual. However, for the first 6 months where we’re flying 50-60 hours per month, means that lubricating AD would have to be complied with about every two months. That’s why I was slightly concerned about the cost of complying with that AD. If anyone has done that AD inspection outside of an annual, I’d appreciate knowing how much they paid for it. It’ll just be about 3-4 times I’d have to do it outside of an annual.

Essentially, we didn't want to buy an airplane to finish up a little bit of time building and then sell it and then buy a family airplane to travel in.

Thanks everyone. 

[Mooneymite]

Unless modified, there's an AD on some motor mounts on the older Mooneys.  It is a visual inspection, so it's not a big deal....unless you find a crack.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Mooneymite
Punctuation.

[cferr59]

73-21-01 requires Mooney gear rigging tools ($500-600 including a dial type torque wrench).  I assisted with this at annual and it took less than an hour, but I was already on jacks with the panels open.   I imagine it would take another 2 hours to open and close the belly and panels.   I would say budget 3 or 4 hours for that AD.  I also have a 100 hours AD on the engine mount.  My Prop AD was cancelled by filling it with oil and the 500 hour control shafts were changed to remove the AD on them.  Previous owner replaced all cylinders due to an ECI AD.

[cliffy]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

The Bendix ignition switch is kind of serious... they wear out over 50years.   So replacing it with a new one, your grandkids will have to go through the same effort... 

If bad the switch can be very easily repaired with new internal contacts (widely available) A new one is not always required. 

BTW, Just going to OFF does NOT check the switch or comply with the AD   Both the AD and the Bendix SB 583 specify that the inspection entails turning the switch to OFF and then trying to see if it will go beyond OFF and let the engine to continue to run. If it continues to run BEYOND OFF the switch is bad. This is done at IDLE power to avoid bad things happening while its being checked. 

Again its those pesky little details like actually reading the AD to comply that get missed when we play the "telephone" game.

 

ANY AIRPLANE PURCHASE needs a proper prebuy inspection done by someone with experience ONTHAT MAKE airplane.

An A&P that only works on C and P airplanes is not the guy to a prebuy on a Mooney

ANY AIRPLANE PURCHASE requires a thorough AD compliance check back to day one. 
Mooneys have a couple of quirks that other airplane don't but nothing too unusual if you know what to look for. Plenty of info on this forum for a quality prebuy inspection. 

Two items to bear in mind-

NEVER believe what an airplane salesman is saying CHECK EVERYTHING OUT YOURSELF and I mean EVERYTHING!

NEVER buy the first airplane you look at. You have to look at many to get a good idea of just what to look at. There are many stories right here on MS about buying the first airplane looked at and regretting it later

There are also many stories about "less than good" prebuys here on MS.

Get educated BEORE you plunk money down! NOTHING costs more than haste and ignorance in buying airplanes. 

 

[PT20J]

5 hours ago, cferr59 said:

73-21-01 requires Mooney gear rigging tools ($500-600 including a dial type torque wrench).  I assisted with this at annual and it took less than an hour, but I was already on jacks with the panels open.   I imagine it would take another 2 hours to open and close the belly and panels.   I would say budget 3 or 4 hours for that AD.  I also have a 100 hours AD on the engine mount.  My Prop AD was cancelled by filling it with oil and the 500 hour control shafts were changed to remove the AD on them.  Previous owner replaced all cylinders due to an ECI AD.

That sounds about right. The AD has three parts:

a) Lube all the rod ends every 100hrs or annually

b) Replace retract links with improved design (a one-time mod)

c) Perform a gear retraction test and check preload whenever a) is accomplished. This requires jacking and using the torque wrench and rigging tools.

[takair]

The older the Mooney the more difficult the access. At least your list starts with a 65 where the cowl was easier to access than my 64, but you are still talking a lot of access panels every 100 hours. I think a bigger question would be if you have a mechanic willing to work to your schedule and familiar with Mooneys. Booking is often the bigger issue these days.  You will also be looking at oil changes, plug cleaning and swapping, and ancillary findings. I can’t seem to go 100 hours without finding something else that needs work, and that is after many years of clean up.  Cracked baffles, exhaust issues, gear rigging findings, etc. The number of hours you want to do assume a baseline aircraft in extremely good condition and equipped exactly as you need for your mission. It honestly seems a little optimistic, to me, for an older Mooney unless you get a very good example. I suppose if you are an A&P yourself and are going to do this almost full time for 6 months....fly, fix, fly fix....it is doable, but you would certainly be operating like a busy flight school or charter. 

[Yetti]

Many people consider the Mooney a good family plane and a traveling machine.   A c150 is a time builder.   The amount of maintenance a plane needs is commiserate with how much maintenance it has had recently.   You should have 10K in the bank after the purchase of a plane to handle things that come up.   Say you need a new tail pipe.  $400.00.    You are focusing on several of the smaller cost maintenance items.   Prop hub can be another reoccurring AD.  When was the prop resealed/OH last?  3-10K

 

[Guest]

I must be reading the AD wrong. Where does it say you have to jack and swing the gear? 

73-21-01 MOONEY: Amdt. 39-1729. Applies to Mooney Models M20, M20A, M20B, M20C, M20D, M20E, M20F and M20G airplanes.

Compliance required as indicated.

To prevent corrosion and/or misrigging in the flight control and landing gear systems which may result in binding or seizure of the joints and loss of flight control or collapse of the landing gear, accomplish the following:

(a) Within 25 hours time in service after July 10, 1972, unless already accomplished within the last 25 hours time in service, and thereafter at intervals not to exceed 12 calendar months from the last inspection or 100 hours time in service from the last inspection, whichever comes first, lubricate all flight control systems and landing gear system rod end bearings with a silicone spray lubricant or with an FAA approved equivalent lubricant.

(b) Within the next 50 hours time in service after July 10, 1972, unless already accomplished, install retracting links, P/N 530003-13 (1 ea.) and 510011-13 (2 ea.) on all M20B, C, E, F, and G aircraft and on M20D models converted to a retractable gear, or equivalent parts approved by the Chief, Engineering and Manufacturing Branch, Flight Standards Division, Southwest Region, FAA, Fort Worth, Texas. The new links incorporate grease fittings and improved overcenter travel resulting in lower preload rigging. New links are not required if the existing installations use -13 links which have grease fittings. (Reference Mooney Service Bulletin M20-155 dated 6-15-67, or later FAA approved revision.)

[cferr59]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I must be reading the AD wrong. Where does it say you have to jack and swing the gear? 

73-21-01 MOONEY: Amdt. 39-1729. Applies to Mooney Models M20, M20A, M20B, M20C, M20D, M20E, M20F and M20G airplanes.

Compliance required as indicated.

To prevent corrosion and/or misrigging in the flight control and landing gear systems which may result in binding or seizure of the joints and loss of flight control or collapse of the landing gear, accomplish the following:

(a) Within 25 hours time in service after July 10, 1972, unless already accomplished within the last 25 hours time in service, and thereafter at intervals not to exceed 12 calendar months from the last inspection or 100 hours time in service from the last inspection, whichever comes first, lubricate all flight control systems and landing gear system rod end bearings with a silicone spray lubricant or with an FAA approved equivalent lubricant.

(b) Within the next 50 hours time in service after July 10, 1972, unless already accomplished, install retracting links, P/N 530003-13 (1 ea.) and 510011-13 (2 ea.) on all M20B, C, E, F, and G aircraft and on M20D models converted to a retractable gear, or equivalent parts approved by the Chief, Engineering and Manufacturing Branch, Flight Standards Division, Southwest Region, FAA, Fort Worth, Texas. The new links incorporate grease fittings and improved overcenter travel resulting in lower preload rigging. New links are not required if the existing installations use -13 links which have grease fittings. (Reference Mooney Service Bulletin M20-155 dated 6-15-67, or later FAA approved revision.)

I would love to be wrong about this because it would make the AD much easier for me, but there is an item C that says:

"(c) At the next lubrication as required in (a) and thereafter at the same interval as specified in (a), perform a landing gear retraction test and check the landing gear rigging...."

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/AOCADSearch/022EF974FDE32DBA86256A3B006FA1EA?OpenDocument

But, I will happily not do the gear swing if I am misinterpreting.   For me, it is wasteful because I fly about 120 hours a year.

Edited March 29, 2021 by cferr59

[M20F]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:51 AM, Chris Bopp said:

Hello,

My other half and I are interested in purchasing a Vintage Mooney and noticed a couple of ADs that have to be addressed every 100hrs. I am in need of a plane that I can build about 200-300hrs (50-60 hrs/month) and then <10hrs/month there after to keep down the road for family. Below I have listed the ADs along with questions: 

1) 73-21-01 lubricating flight control and landing gear

2) 76-07-12 ignition switch check

Questions

1) Roughly how much for both AD fixes cost me every 100hrs (including labor) pre annual? 

2) Since I plan to fly a lot within 6 months to get my hours, is getting a vintage model worth the “hassle” of these 2 ADs? How long does the process take for these ADs to be complied? What’s the downtime? 

3) Are there any other ADs that I may have missed that need to be addressed? 
 

Thank you in advance! 

I will take the 50-60hrs a month at face value.  If that is how many hours you intend to fly on a newly purchased vintage Mooney airframe, these AD’s will be the least of your issues. 

[carusoam]

Following Mike’s economics, maintenance, and life experience, lesson above...

1) Fly 50 hrs each month...

2) 600 hrs each year...

3) burning 10gph...  

4) Fuel price near 4$/gal

5) keeping the plane ready, indoors...100 - 800 per month... call it 5amu each year...

6) How seriously do we want to be about adding up each step in the four day annual? Call it 2-3 AMU...

7) Add the first year of insurance... another 3AMU... gets better the second year...

8) oil changes and maintenance are not added up yet...

9) A fourth of the engine OH is getting used up in this year as well...

24amu for fuel... is enough to ask the question...

Why are you going to fly this much?

Is this education, work experience, a tax write off, a service to humanity...?  

It has to be worth it somehow...

If looking for a lower cost to getting good flight experience...  find Alex... 

Best regards,

-a-

[FlyingDude]

1 hour ago, cferr59 said:

will happily not do the gear swing

It's quick and painless, given that the plane is already gutted out for the annual anyway. The incremental cost is minimal.... Just do it.

[FlyingDude]

7 minutes ago, carusoam said:

another 3AMU.

What's AMU?

[N201MKTurbo]

11 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

What's AMU?

Dude, it’s a term coined here on MooneySpace. Aviation Monetary Unit, $1000 

[cferr59]

13 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

It's quick and painless, given that the plane is already gutted out for the annual anyway. The incremental cost is minimal.... Just do it.

At annual, not a problem, but for a 100 hour AD 20 hours from annual?  I would rather not!

[RobertGary1]

Also look to see if you have a Hartzel prop hub with a 100 hr AD. It must be done by someone who is certified for eci. Usually a prop shop 

[FlyingDude]

19 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Dude, it’s a term coined here on MooneySpace. Aviation Monetary Unit, $1000 

I love it!

I was thinking of "aircraft mechanic unit"as in 1 hr but I thought that'd be too inexpensive.

Thanks for the explanation

[FlyingDude]

20 minutes ago, cferr59 said:

a 100 hour AD 20 hours from annual?

 

17 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Hartzel prop hub with a 100 hr AD

Not my problem, because I don't fly that much but maybe this is where Part 91 "privileges" kick in. You know, 2000 TBO is mandatory for hire but "just a recommendation" when operating under part 91, that kind of discourse. 

Again, in my case annual comes before 100hrs, so I didn't dig into that, but someone more knowledgeable here could shed some light... A light worth 1000 AMUs

[RobertGary1]

46 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

 

Not my problem, because I don't fly that much but maybe this is where Part 91 "privileges" kick in. You know, 2000 TBO is mandatory for hire but "just a recommendation" when operating under part 91, that kind of discourse. 

Again, in my case annual comes before 100hrs, so I didn't dig into that, but someone more knowledgeable here could shed some light... A light worth 1000 AMUs

ADs have to be done for 91 too. Since usually it’s a prop shop that does the hub inspection it can be a pain to coordinate that if you don’t have a prop shop nearby.