ArtVandelay Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 There is also a stall speed certification requirement, IIRC its 60 MPH CAS, clean. More weight increases the stalling speed as well.Yes, the stall speed for later Js did go up a few knots.I wonder what, if any, changes to the stall speed is a result of the winglets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said: There is no way the 150 would ever climb with 40 degrees of flaps. I never allowed my students to use them because if we did stalls with 40 degrees of flaps and they stuck we'd be in a field. -Robert I don't think C150s are certified normal category, iirc they're utility only. C172s are both utility and normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I would love to dump the donuts on my Bravo. If you look at the pictures of the M22 that is for sale you see that Mooney modified the landing gear so the 3680lb. Mustang could stand on oleo struts. How did they do it? Mooney modified the wing to move a rib that is installed immediately outboard of the landing gear on all the metal Mooneys. By moving the rib they moved the gear further outboard so the land gear well has more room. When the M22 takes off the oleo a extend so you need more room in the well for the gear to retract. Bill Wheat suggested many times to Mooney Management that the M22 wing be used on new aircraft (it is a certified part) so that oleos could be used in the landing gear. Mooney may be working on this. You probably wondering how a 3680 gross weight airplane could keep from breaking from breaking the 60kt stall speed limit. If someone could talk the M22 owner into lowering the flaps and and taking a picture it would reveal a slick aerodynamic improvement to the flaps which provided enough additional lift to allow 59kt stall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 hours ago, rbridges said: Is Halibut code word for "meth"? https://www.newson6.com/story/605235189605120bdcc5d036/homeland-security-arrest-pilot-accused-of-having-more-than-100-lbs-of-meth-on-plane If my insurance goes up again this year it just might... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Note for @keithmiller... There is an edit button for that title... Only visible to the thread creator... -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 5 hours ago, carusoam said: Note for @keithmiller... There is an edit button for that title... Only visible to the thread creator... -a- I sure would like to increase the useful load of my money! I can't help noticing the prices on Andy Griffith . . . . Those prices with a modern salary would sure be a load!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmiller Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 9 hours ago, carusoam said: Note for @keithmiller... There is an edit button for that title... Only visible to the thread creator... -a- Thanks for the tip , how do I accomplish doing that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 hour ago, keithmiller said: Thanks for the tip , how do I accomplish doing that ? Go to the Original Post. There should be three little dots in the top right corner. Click them and the option to Edit should appear. Select it and change away! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeaky.stow Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 The only thing you need to add is an = sign between “Money” and “useful load increase” ;-) 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 23 hours ago, FoxMike said: I would love to dump the donuts on my Bravo. If you look at the pictures of the M22 that is for sale you see that Mooney modified the landing gear so the 3680lb. Mustang could stand on oleo struts. How did they do it? Mooney modified the wing to move a rib that is installed immediately outboard of the landing gear on all the metal Mooneys. By moving the rib they moved the gear further outboard so the land gear well has more room. When the M22 takes off the oleo a extend so you need more room in the well for the gear to retract. Bill Wheat suggested many times to Mooney Management that the M22 wing be used on new aircraft (it is a certified part) so that oleos could be used in the landing gear. Mooney may be working on this. You probably wondering how a 3680 gross weight airplane could keep from breaking from breaking the 60kt stall speed limit. If someone could talk the M22 owner into lowering the flaps and and taking a picture it would reveal a slick aerodynamic improvement to the flaps which provided enough additional lift to allow 59kt stall. The M22 had oleo struts which met the drop test at the higher weight and fowler flaps to meet the stall speed requirements at the higher weight. The design engineering for both M22 parts continues to be held at Mooney and could be what has been referred to. There may be significant redesign required to apply either or both of these changes to the M20 airframe. I'm no aerospace engineer so I'm just speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorlon1 Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Geoff said: The M22 had oleo struts which met the drop test at the higher weight and fowler flaps to meet the stall speed requirements at the higher weight. The design engineering for both M22 parts continues to be held at Mooney and could be what has been referred to. There may be significant redesign required to apply either or both of these changes to the M20 airframe. I'm no aerospace engineer so I'm just speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 As an example, U.S. FAR Part 23 requires that the stall speed of a single-engine airplane in landing configuration not exceed 61 knots. This stall speed requirement drives the maximum wing loading the airplane can have. The options are: reduce the empty weight of the airframe or increase the wingspan, like on the Piper Malibu. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 VGs are a simple solution to the stall speed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, Niko182 said: VGs are a simple solution to the stall speed. And cheap too! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, GeeBee said: And cheap too! I believe they 1400 dollars and are relatively easy to install by yourself. Just got to find an AP to sign off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Make it part of the STC for the increased GW and it all comes together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 VGs are a simple solution to the stall speed.So much for laminar flow wings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: So much for laminar flow wings. Then you lower the cruise speed. it isnt that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) On 3/24/2021 at 6:32 PM, jetdriven said: Then you lower the cruise speed. it isnt that simple. so much for laminar flow wings VGs on a Mooney are like a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Edited March 26, 2021 by RJBrown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 A review of real world experiences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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