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Why a Dedicated Aviation Handheld and not just an iPad?


donkaye

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I thought about posting this in my previous thread about the Aera 760, but thought in view of today's circumstances it was better to start a new thread.

Today was interesting to say the least.  As a result of having been completely vaccinated, for the first time in over a year I took on a ferry job that involved flying Commercially to get the airplane.  If I hadn't been vaccinated, it would have been a very uncomfortable trip.  The Southwest flight was totally packed and when arriving in San Diego the terminal had more people packed in waiting for flights than I have ever seen, even before Covid. (See Photo below.   It was actually worse than it looks in the photo)

I thought it was going to be an easy flight with no substantial weather.  I did a text briefing from Garmin Pilot and scanned METARs and Terminal Forecasts.  I should have spent more time and actually gone on a computer to see what was potentially out there a few hours later.   When I looked down on the trip from San Jose there really wasn't anything going on.  So I filed out of San Diego to Stockton on my usual flight plan; Oceanside to Seal Beach, then up V459 to Lake Hughes, then Visalia to get around the Lemore NAS MOAs, then direct Stockton.  Everything was looking good up through LA.  At that point I looked ahead, and in the middle of California there was a significant band of weather that had developed just behind a cold front.  Tops were 20,000 feet so there couldn't be much convection, but there were a significant number to storm cells that were showing on the G1000, the 760, and the iPad.  The band was moving pretty fast, since at 16,000 feet it was a direct crosswind at 40 knots.

Just out of the Tehachapis I primed the TKS to make sure it was working.  If I had been flying my airplane it would have been land and possibly stay overnight due to reported icing.  As I moved closer to the weather I asked for and actually got a block altitude clearance in California.  As I asked for higher from my initial cruising altitude of 14,000, the Controller quizzed me as to whether I really meant go lower, since some other aircraft had asked for lower.  No, I wanted higher to possibly top it.  The band did not extend to Stockton. so I knew I wouldn't be descending into a mess.  First I asked for 16,000, then a block 16,000-17,00, then FL180, then FL 190.  The temperature went to a -19°C.  In the initial climb the windshield started to pick up ice.  I turned on the TKS at that point. and it dissipated.  At 19,000 feet I was still in cloud but I could see the sun, the conditions were smooth, there was no ice, and no convection.  The stormscope showed nothing and the storm cells were moving east past me.  ATC gave me a descent, which I declined due to still being around some indicated storm cells.  They followed that with a pilot discretion descent.

So what does all this have to do with the titled topic?  I was monitoring all of this on the iPad and had set up the approach with the RNAV 29 approach plate overplayed on the map in preparation to running the approach.  I got a little turbulence on the descent and I look over at the iPad and it had shut down.  It had plenty of juice, but wouldn't turn back on, and I was busy being vectored for the descent since I had to stay high for so long.  There was no time to trouble shoot it.  I quickly set up the 760 for the approach and overlayed the plate on it.  I had previously loaded the approach on the G1000, so I was set up for the navigation.

When I got home, of course, the iPad turned on.  I will never trust the iPad.  Thank goodness for the 760, the normalizer once again.  I know the plates are on the G1000, but I hadn't flown the G1000 in quite awhile, so hadn't set it up before hand.

In my airplane, in which I know the avionics backwards and forwards, I have plates on both the G500 TXi and the GTN 750Xi in addition to the Aera 760 and iPad, so a failure of the iPad with that many backups is a none event.  Not so today.  The 760 backup came in very handy.  Of course if that had failed, then I would have asked for additional vectors, as I set up the plate on the G1000.

The moral of this story is you better have a backup to the iPad (preferably two) if you are using it for your primary approach plate and weather, and what better to use than the Aera 760?

Southwest Teminal San Diego 3-19-21.jpg

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Brings up the point of always loading the approach on your BU iPad if you don't have the option to also loaded the app. plate on your panel. 

I wouldn't want to try and swap the iPads during the approach if the first one died, so I'd go missed - from memory at this point.  But if the BU iPad was already set to go, the vectors around to shoot the approach again would be more than enough time to swap out the the tanked iPad.

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:03 AM, PeteMc said:

Brings up the point of always loading the approach on your BU iPad if you don't have the option to also loaded the app. plate on your panel. 

I wouldn't want to try and swap the iPads during the approach if the first one died, so I'd go missed - from memory at this point.  But if the BU iPad was already set to go, the vectors around to shoot the approach again would be more than enough time to swap out the the tanked iPad.

Good point. But part of that, including your backup tablet at the ready, is largely about what else you have, how comfortable you are relying on the alternative, and exactly where the failure occurs. To give an example, I'm flying with GPS and I have already confirmed the approach on the screen is the right one when the EFB fails. I'm getting course guidance, vertical guidance if ILS or LPV and, with the newer units, target altitudes as well. And the missed -if ceilings and viz are low enough to worry about - might be easy. An ATC instructed straight ahead climb which isn't even on the chart you lost.  At a certain point in the approach I'm not relying on my EFB anymore; I barely even notice it. Pretty much the same as if a paper chart fell to the floor.

The loss of EFB is an interesting scenario. A friend's iPad overheated while I was giving him an IPC. He did not have his backup with him. The end result was advising ATC (me in this case) he lost his charts and needed the altitudes (he has a GNS so he had the courses but not the altitudes) for the approach. he did a great job flying it.

Edited by midlifeflyer
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Good point.

I mention I still have the Garmin 510 on the panel, which I would otherwise replace with a aera 660 except...

I use that device only for one purpose - as my XM weather reader.  And Garmin also sold it to the boat community.  So I am able to carry the MUCH cheaper marine subscription from XM.  I bet XM would be wise to me and not allow a 660 to take a marine subscription.

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I am on my fourth generation of iPads and have never had one shut down or even hiccup in the cockpit. When iPads first came out I got an aluminum kneeboard that I still use. The strap that goes around my leg crosses the kneeboard, inside the board, so the iPad sits on the strap and never sits directly on the aluminum, which of course sits directly on my knee. The iPad is always up off the aluminum by an eight to a quarter of an inch. It has dawned on me over years of use that this is probably what accounts for the dependability I have experienced. It probably was not designed in for this reason, it was designed in just to get the strap from one side to the other, but is certainly has worked well, and without fans or anything of that kind to create cooling, just a little bit of space behind the iPad so it does not sit directly on the pilot's leg. I keep a backup in my flight bag, but have not ever had to use it other than to let a passenger have it to watch the flight.

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:39 AM, jlunseth said:

I am on my fourth generation of iPads and have never had one shut down or even hiccup in the cockpit. When iPads first came out I got an aluminum kneeboard that I still use. The strap that goes around my leg crosses the kneeboard, inside the board, so the iPad sits on the strap and never sits directly on the aluminum, which of course sits directly on my knee. The iPad is always up off the aluminum by an eight to a quarter of an inch. It has dawned on me over years of use that this is probably what accounts for the dependability I have experienced. It probably was not designed in for this reason, it was designed in just to get the strap from one side to the other, but is certainly has worked well, and without fans or anything of that kind to create cooling, just a little bit of space behind the iPad so it does not sit directly on the pilot's leg. I keep a backup in my flight bag, but have not ever had to use it other than to let a passenger have it to watch the flight.

Your and my experience is pretty  much the same. My only hiccup in 10+ years was a ForeFlight bug. Froze during vectoring. But still didn't have to go to my backup tablet just loaded another EFB.

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I have found three ways for the iPad to fail me:

1. Low on power. Sometimes I forget to charge it.  I fixed that by having  a permanent USB power source installed.

2. Over temp shutdown. I solved that by not leaving it on the yoke mount in a hot plane parked on the ramp, positioning Rosen sun visors to keep the sun from beating on it in the cockpit, and directing the knee vent toward it on hot days which keeps me cool too.

3. Accidentally swiping the screen and turning the display brightness all the way down in bright sunlight. It gets so dim as to appear totally black. I’m just learning to be more careful with touchscreens.

Redundancy is good, but single pilot IFR in terminal areas is a high workload environment and changing workflow on the fly seems unwise unless all the alternate schemes have been well practiced. So, +1 for getting help from ATC. With an Aspen PFD and a GNS 430W all I really need the iPad for is charts. I can get them with Foreflight on my phone in a pinch. But, in reality, I’d just ask the controller for some help.

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13 hours ago, donkaye said:

I thought about posting this in my previous thread about the Aera 760, but thought in view of today's circumstances it was better to start a new thread.

Today was interesting to say the least.  As a result of having been completely vaccinated, for the first time in over a year I took on a ferry job that involved flying Commercially to get the airplane.  If I hadn't been vaccinated, it would have been a very uncomfortable trip.  The Southwest flight was totally packed and when arriving in San Diego the terminal had more people packed in waiting for flights than I have ever seen, even before Covid. (See Photo below.   It was actually worse than it looks in the photo)

I thought it was going to be an easy flight with no substantial weather.  I did a text briefing from Garmin Pilot and scanned METARs and Terminal Forecasts.  I should have spent more time and actually gone on a computer to see what was potentially out there a few hours later.   When I looked down on the trip from San Jose there really wasn't anything going on.  So I filed out of San Diego to Stockton on my usual flight plan; Oceanside to Seal Beach, then up V459 to Lake Hughes, then Visalia to get around the Lemore NAS MOAs, then direct Stockton.  Everything was looking good up through LA.  At that point I looked ahead, and in the middle of California there was a significant band of weather that had developed just behind a cold front.  Tops were 20,000 feet so there couldn't be much convection, but there were a significant number to storm cells that were showing on the G1000, the 760, and the iPad.  The band was moving pretty fast, since at 16,000 feet it was a direct crosswind at 40 knots.

Just out of the Tehachapis I primed the TKS to make sure it was working.  If I had been flying my airplane it would have been land and possibly stay overnight due to reported icing.  As I moved closer to the weather I asked for and actually got a block altitude clearance in California.  As I asked for higher from my initial cruising altitude of 14,000, the Controller quizzed me as to whether I really meant go lower, since some other aircraft had asked for lower.  No, I wanted higher to possibly top it.  The band did not extend to Stockton. so I knew I wouldn't be descending into a mess.  First I asked for 16,000, then a block 16,000-17,00, then FL180, then FL 190.  The temperature went to a -19°C.  In the initial climb the windshield started to pick up ice.  I turned on the TKS at that point. and it dissipated.  At 19,000 feet I was still in cloud but I could see the sun, the conditions were smooth, there was no ice, and no convection.  The stormscope showed nothing and the storm cells were moving east past me.  ATC gave me a descent, which I declined due to still being around some indicated storm cells.  They followed that with a pilot discretion descent.

So what does all this have to do with the titled topic?  I was monitoring all of this on the iPad and had set up the approach with the RNAV 29 approach plate overplayed on the map in preparation to running the approach.  I got a little turbulence on the descent and I look over at the iPad and it had shut down.  It had plenty of juice, but wouldn't turn back on, and I was busy being vectored for the descent since I had to stay high for so long.  There was no time to trouble shoot it.  I quickly set up the 760 for the approach and overlayed the plate on it.  I had previously loaded the approach on the G1000, so I was set up for the navigation.

When I got home, of course, the iPad turned on.  I will never trust the iPad.  Thank goodness for the 760, the normalizer once again.  I know the plates are on the G1000, but I hadn't flown the G1000 in quite awhile, so hadn't set it up before hand.

In my airplane, in which I know the avionics backwards and forwards, I have plates on both the G500 TXi and the GTN 750Xi in addition to the Aera 760 and iPad, so a failure of the iPad with that many backups is a none event.  Not so today.  The 760 backup came in very handy.  Of course if that had failed, then I would have asked for additional vectors, as I set up the plate on the G1000.

The moral of this story is you better have a backup to the iPad (preferably two) if you are using it for your primary approach plate and weather, and what better to use than the Aera 760?

Southwest Teminal San Diego 3-19-21.jpg

Excellent PIREP. I am still on the fence about the 760 vs Ipad. Garmin pilot's logic is great. You have so many different things you can do, that you can not do on a 760 (for example download my chart updates for my 750...), but then in the cockpit the screen of the 760 is so much better than the ipad. So I am trying to see what fits better my needs.

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2 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Excellent PIREP. I am still on the fence about the 760 vs Ipad. Garmin pilot's logic is great. You have so many different things you can do, that you can not do on a 760 (for example download my chart updates for my 750...), but then in the cockpit the screen of the 760 is so much better than the ipad. So I am trying to see what fits better my needs.

You really need both.

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I have the GTN750 and use the Ipad for charts, weather ... If my Ipad fails, I have  always a backup Ipad with Garmin Pilot and updated charts in the seat pocket. When I fly with my wife, she has also Garmin Pilot installed on her IPAD and is always connected to the 750 and the 345 via Flightstream. 

 

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I've been doing ok with a 9.7" iPad on a small Ram yoke mount without a cover, so the it gets plenty of cooling on the back. Another iPad mini on a large velcro attached to a similar Ram mount on the empty spot on the right panel both connected to the 2 GNS430W's via FS210, and both plugged in to USB chargers. So when I load a flight plan on the iPad in on the yoke it gets transferred to the mini, including approaches. If both go I still have the iPhone on my side pocket.

If all of that fails I probably have other, more pressing problems to deal with :unsure:. I do have an old VFR chart of my home base on the rear seat pocket.

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1 hour ago, 4cornerflyer said:

I hate to come off as a Luddite, but I don't think you can beat having a copy of paper charts as a back-up. I carry actual charts which cover about 95% of my flying.

Jon

I have all the skyNav charts with me on every flight. I print out approach charts as backup when I flight plan...

http://www.morganaviationllc.com/

 

edit: boy what timing - they just announced they are shutting down.. shame...

-Don

 

 

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I was a 696 user that was reluctant to upgrade to the 796.  Never looked back!   Same with my move from the 430 to 650.  Seems I’m comfortable with the familiar.   Learning from these lessons I’m upgrading to the 760.  Seems silly but the feature I’m most excited about is the WiFi update capability.  With WiFi in my hangar I think it will be convenient to never remove the unit.  Now if I could update the GTN750 via the 760 I’d really be spoiled!  

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I’ve been flying with an iPad since ForeFlight became a thing, and the only failure I’ve experienced was an overheating shutdown because I left it on the glare shield.  
 

That said, I don’t like to rely on a single piece of technology as hardware, software, and data can each fail at inopportune times.  My backups are Chartview on G1000 and my iPhone.

I would worry about owning an orphaned, obsolete product with a Garmin dedicated portable.  It’s not obvious that these things are commercially viable in a world of smartphones, phablets, and tablets.

-dan

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My only iPad / Stratus "failure" was due to overheating while the plane was on the ramp, between flights, preventing me from starting the flight until both units cooled down.  I got into the habit of taking both out their mounts and putting them on the floor in the passenger footwell.  Even on a 90+F degree sunny day, both units are ready to go when I am.  I found the Stratus to be more vulnerable to inflight overheating, based on its position below the windscreen.  Putting a white paper "radiant heat shield" around it (with 1/4 inch gap for air circulation) prevents overheating.  I understand the argument that a Garmin EFB eliminates these potential problems, but I really like ForeFlight on an iPad Mini.

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On 3/19/2021 at 9:39 PM, donkaye said:

I thought about posting this in my previous thread about the Aera 760, but thought in view of today's circumstances it was better to start a new thread.

Today was interesting to say the least.  As a result of having been completely vaccinated, for the first time in over a year I took on a ferry job that involved flying Commercially to get the airplane.  If I hadn't been vaccinated, it would have been a very uncomfortable trip.  The Southwest flight was totally packed and when arriving in San Diego the terminal had more people packed in waiting for flights than I have ever seen, even before Covid. (See Photo below.   It was actually worse than it looks in the photo)

I thought it was going to be an easy flight with no substantial weather.  I did a text briefing from Garmin Pilot and scanned METARs and Terminal Forecasts.  I should have spent more time and actually gone on a computer to see what was potentially out there a few hours later.   When I looked down on the trip from San Jose there really wasn't anything going on.  So I filed out of San Diego to Stockton on my usual flight plan; Oceanside to Seal Beach, then up V459 to Lake Hughes, then Visalia to get around the Lemore NAS MOAs, then direct Stockton.  Everything was looking good up through LA.  At that point I looked ahead, and in the middle of California there was a significant band of weather that had developed just behind a cold front.  Tops were 20,000 feet so there couldn't be much convection, but there were a significant number to storm cells that were showing on the G1000, the 760, and the iPad.  The band was moving pretty fast, since at 16,000 feet it was a direct crosswind at 40 knots.

Just out of the Tehachapis I primed the TKS to make sure it was working.  If I had been flying my airplane it would have been land and possibly stay overnight due to reported icing.  As I moved closer to the weather I asked for and actually got a block altitude clearance in California.  As I asked for higher from my initial cruising altitude of 14,000, the Controller quizzed me as to whether I really meant go lower, since some other aircraft had asked for lower.  No, I wanted higher to possibly top it.  The band did not extend to Stockton. so I knew I wouldn't be descending into a mess.  First I asked for 16,000, then a block 16,000-17,00, then FL180, then FL 190.  The temperature went to a -19°C.  In the initial climb the windshield started to pick up ice.  I turned on the TKS at that point. and it dissipated.  At 19,000 feet I was still in cloud but I could see the sun, the conditions were smooth, there was no ice, and no convection.  The stormscope showed nothing and the storm cells were moving east past me.  ATC gave me a descent, which I declined due to still being around some indicated storm cells.  They followed that with a pilot discretion descent.

So what does all this have to do with the titled topic?  I was monitoring all of this on the iPad and had set up the approach with the RNAV 29 approach plate overplayed on the map in preparation to running the approach.  I got a little turbulence on the descent and I look over at the iPad and it had shut down.  It had plenty of juice, but wouldn't turn back on, and I was busy being vectored for the descent since I had to stay high for so long.  There was no time to trouble shoot it.  I quickly set up the 760 for the approach and overlayed the plate on it.  I had previously loaded the approach on the G1000, so I was set up for the navigation.

When I got home, of course, the iPad turned on.  I will never trust the iPad.  Thank goodness for the 760, the normalizer once again.  I know the plates are on the G1000, but I hadn't flown the G1000 in quite awhile, so hadn't set it up before hand.

In my airplane, in which I know the avionics backwards and forwards, I have plates on both the G500 TXi and the GTN 750Xi in addition to the Aera 760 and iPad, so a failure of the iPad with that many backups is a none event.  Not so today.  The 760 backup came in very handy.  Of course if that had failed, then I would have asked for additional vectors, as I set up the plate on the G1000.

The moral of this story is you better have a backup to the iPad (preferably two) if you are using it for your primary approach plate and weather, and what better to use than the Aera 760?

Southwest Teminal San Diego 3-19-21.jpg


On the topic of travel- one of my side jobs for the USAF is presidential support for AF-1.  As a result, I’ve been traveling via commercial air all through the pandemic.  In May, I was standing out on northern most runway at sky harbor... and you could hear a pin drop across the airfield.  Phoenix Skyharbor!  The tower controller I met with said he was “doing 40” during one of our meetings... I asked, what, and hour?  He said a day.  40 flights a day, that was it.

fast forward to election season (September) and every airport I travelled through, and all the flights I was on were PACKED: just like you describe.  It’s been this way since at least the summer time.  The main reason IMO is that the airlines are no longer spacing their flights out through the day... because of the reduced number of flights, they are packing them all in during the middle of the day.  The airline system is still a business... so my guess is that this is the best way for them to “bleed less.”  I’m sure the schedules and demand will expand the airline scheduling, but for right now... it’s crowded.  And since the industry runs on such razor thin margins, unless the government continues to majorly subsidize public air travel via relief packages.. I’d expect it to stay that way.

 

on the topic of iPads as an EFB... the USAF transitioned to iPad mini’s for our charts/plates instead of printed about 2 years ago.  We were each issued two iPad mini’s loaded with fore flight and a government NGA chart download platform (so we can use nga plates/charts, as opposed to Jepp).  I was skeptical, despite using an iPad as my primary for flying the Mooney.  After 2 years, I haven’t had a single problem with the iPads though... and while I’m required to carry two... I’ve never needs the backup (yet).  I still think it’s prudent to have a backup under vfr, for sure... mandatory (IMO) if one is flying under IFR... and critical if IMC is forecast along ones route (I actually print out paper copies of expected approaches and portions of the low charts along my route if I’m anticipating imc....it’s my third backup in case my iPad then iPhone.. fail.  An “abundance of caution?”)
 

subjectively, even after 2 years of using fore flight for work, I still don’t like it’s interface.., I prefer FlyQ in the Mooney as I think it’s faster, more intuitive and easier to use with fewer “nested menus.”  Totally subjective.  Sadly, I’ll have to keep using foreflight at work, as they have the government contract. 

glad to see you’re back in the air, Don!

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5 hours ago, slowflyin said:

I was a 696 user that was reluctant to upgrade to the 796.  Never looked back!   Same with my move from the 430 to 650.  Seems I’m comfortable with the familiar.   Learning from these lessons I’m upgrading to the 760.  Seems silly but the feature I’m most excited about is the WiFi update capability.  With WiFi in my hangar I think it will be convenient to never remove the unit.  Now if I could update the GTN750 via the 760 I’d really be spoiled!  

The thing that surprised me about the 760 (and the 796) is that the resolution is identical to the decade-old 696. I’m sure that this makes the software development simpler, but it just seems odd to have zero improvement in resolution over several hardware releases. Especially since that’s a key improvement of the GTN Xi series. 

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1 minute ago, toto said:

The thing that surprised me about the 760 (and the 796) is that the resolution is identical to the decade-old 696. I’m sure that this makes the software development simpler, but it just seems odd to have zero improvement in resolution over several hardware releases. Especially since that’s a key improvement of the GTN Xi series. 

I have to admit that I love the speed of the GTN Xi series, but I really don't notice it's improved resolution.  The resolution on the 760 is fine for me and I don't think improving it would add any benefit for me.

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Just now, donkaye said:

I have to admit that I love the speed of the GTN Xi series, but I really don't notice it's improved resolution.  The resolution on the 760 is fine for me and I don't think improving it would add any benefit for me.

I’m actually a big fan of dedicated aviation devices, and I agree with all of your logic above. But I’ll also confess that setting a 760 next to an iPad just makes it look sort of “old” for three to four times the price. Completely agree that it doesn’t impact functionality much. 

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