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More thought on panel design


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Crowd sourcing...

Some people around here are really good with various levels of tech details... getting it all integrated, and having it fit...

But none of it stays constant over time...

My favorite method of selecting things... by watching what others are doing around here...

Some are building a panel, one piece at a time....

Others have gone all-in....

Some have standardized on one supplier...

Others have given up on their favored supplier... BeKause they can’t keep up with the big dogs... :)

 

Watch how some people buy pre-flown devices...  last year’s GTNs getting replaced for the new TXi version...

Or watch with amazement when a whole TXi panel comes together...

 

For the best guidance...

Watch a couple of panels come together... Bob and his M20E, Marauder with his M20F, Paul who started with an M20C and is now upgrading his M20K, Steven’s fantastic Ovation, Lance’s Bravo which posted pics today...

And for the best Big G panel ever... find Don Kaye....  Don spends a lot of time behind his Bravo’s panel... and enjoys the electrical engineering part as much as the piloting part...

Some people really live the Mooney Lifestyle... 24/7... often they share what they have learned around here... as they learn it...

Most MSers don’t mind sharing what they have learned along the way... some don’t have all the time required... or it needs to be  delivered via a PM...

Sometimes we have MSers that actually work for the avionics companies or installers around here or retailers around here...

Its an amazing amount of material... knowledge...finance... and the ability to use these things in IMC, all the way across the country...

And.... it applies all across OZ too... except where ADSB is concerned...   :)

The fun part... what is right for for some, may not be perfect for the next... for various reasons...

 

So... we kind of have crowd sourcing around here...

The more you know about what you want... the more you can learn how others have achieved the same goal...

Find the guys that have gone Dynon... and see what planes they have... and watch their videos...  Chris posts about one video each week...  his M20C looks like it just left the factory... @PilotFun101

PP thoughts only, not much of a public speaker...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

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8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Crowd sourcing...

Some people around here are really good with various levels of tech details... getting it all integrated, and having it fit...

But none of it stays constant over time...

My favorite method of selecting things... by watching what others are doing around here...

Some are building a panel, one piece at a time....

Others have gone all-in....

Some have standardized on one supplier...

Others have given up on their favored supplier... BeKause they can’t keep up with the big dogs... :)

 

Watch how some people buy pre-flown devices...  last year’s GTNs getting replaced for the new TXi version...

Or watch with amazement when a whole TXi panel comes together...

 

For the best guidance...

Watch a couple of panels come together... Bob and his M20E, Marauder with his M20F, Paul who started with an M20C and is now upgrading his M20K, Steven’s fantastic Ovation, Lance’s Bravo which posted pics today...

And for the best Big G panel ever... find Don Kaye....  Don spends a lot of time behind his Bravo’s panel... and enjoys the electrical engineering part as much as the piloting part...

Some people really live the Mooney Lifestyle... 24/7... often they share what they have learned around here... as they learn it...

Most MSers don’t mind sharing what they have learned along the way... some don’t have all the time required... or it needs to be  delivered via a PM...

Sometimes we have MSers that actually work for the avionics companies or installers around here or retailers around here...

Its an amazing amount of material... knowledge...finance... and the ability to use these things in IMC, all the way across the country...

And.... it applies all across OZ too... except where ADSB is concerned...   :)

The fun part... what is right for for some, may not be perfect for the next... for various reasons...

 

So... we kind of have crowd sourcing around here...

The more you know about what you want... the more you can learn how others have achieved the same goal...

Find the guys that have gone Dynon... and see what planes they have... and watch their videos...  Chris posts about one video each week...  his M20C looks like it just left the factory... @PilotFun101

PP thoughts only, not much of a public speaker...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

Thanks.  The big question I am looking for is installation time for G3X EIS vs Dynon Cert inc Eng. monitoring.... any avionics folk done both?  No autopilot, just the screens, backup AI, engine monitoring and include transponder with ADS-B out and IN, in each case.  

Edited by OZMOONEYMAN
grammar n spelling
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Just a thought to consider about committing to the Dynon EFIS before they have a certified autopilot for the Mooney. In early 2017 I was talking with a Dynon rep with an eye towards doing a full panel upgrade. Dynon’s panel is pretty impressive and will play well with Avidyne and Garmin navigators, but will ONLY work with Dynon’s own autopilot. It is not and will not be compatible with any other autopilots. At least, that is what the Dynon rep told me then. 
At that time I was told that certification of the autopilot for Mooney mid-bodies should be completed within 9 months to a year. I note that they are still projecting about 9 months to a year now that it is 2021 and they still do not have certification for autopilot autotrim for any of their three currently certified aircraft types. And you can’t keep your existing electric trim in place until they develop a certified solution. Right now that option is “coming soon” according to Dynon’s website. 
I wish them the best of luck. More competition is good for prices, but I don’t plan to commit until they have a complete certified product.

On a side note, I spoke with an Aspen rep very recently to see if they have any plans to introduce a larger format EFIS. He said that with the new processor in the MAX, this is something they are looking at and they hope to introduce one “in the coming years”. 
 

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That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago.

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18 minutes ago, PT20J said:

That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago.

Skip

I will be following you very closely sir. As I wish to travel the same path. 

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51 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Hey!!!!

A real live Chocks sighting has occurred!

It been years...

Hope all is well...

What’s up?

-a-

Well hey!! Had the big career change, and remodeling the house. So went dark and lurky for a bit. 

I'm baaaaack! 

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23 hours ago, PT20J said:

That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago.

Skip

That will be very close to my eventual setup, excepting a GTN 750 as primary navigator, GMA 35c for the audio panel, and Garmin's EIS.  Good luck, and looking forward to seeing photos!

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28 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

That will be very close to my eventual setup, excepting a GTN 750 as primary navigator, GMA 35c for the audio panel, and Garmin's EIS.  Good luck, and looking forward to seeing photos!

I’m still debating the Garmin EIS vs the EDM 900. I asked for quotes both ways. 

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2 hours ago, PT20J said:

I’m still debating the Garmin EIS vs the EDM 900. I asked for quotes both ways. 

The EDM900 seems to be stuck in time... about a decade ago...

The EIS seems so fresh, there aren’t many MSers reporting their experience using it...
 

The key things for me...

  • can I get the data out of it easily
  • can I share with Savvy?
  • does it suffer from the Xmas tree affect on the T/O roll... eronious momentary technical alarms during acceleration....

Skip, your mission if you choose to accept it...   :)

Best regards,

-a-

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On 3/24/2021 at 7:05 PM, PT20J said:

That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago.

Skip

I have been going down the same path.

Phase I (in process and hopefully done in a few weeks) - installing the GFC 500, G5 and new GNC 255 Nav/Com.  Currently have a GTN 650 and GTX 345.

Phase II, later this year is a new panel with the G3X and the Garmin EIS.  The overall cost of components and installation work for the JPI and the Garmin EIS are pretty close but having the engine information integrated into the G3X display is really nice and this is the path I have chosen.

@PT20JYou might look at the remote audio panel for the G3X.  It is a pretty nice option too.

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14 hours ago, carusoam said:

The EDM900 seems to be stuck in time... about a decade ago...

The EIS seems so fresh, there aren’t many MSers reporting their experience using it...
 

The key things for me...

  • can I get the data out of it easily
  • can I share with Savvy?
  • does it suffer from the Xmas tree affect on the T/O roll... eronious momentary technical alarms during acceleration....

Skip, your mission if you choose to accept it...   :)

Best regards,

-a-

The Garmin manual isn’t very clear about the logging, but Garmin posted this on Beechtalk and Savvy’s website says it supports G3X EIS.

 
Joel Davis wrote:
Also for anyone with one of these and a FS510 the data will go into Garmin Pilot automatically and be uploaded to FlyGarmin so you’ll have it handy on the website. That’s actually one of the few features I can see for the TXi that would get me to take it over the G3X (not sure if the G3X does the same thing yet).

Hello Joel,

The G3X Touch doesn't support flight data logging through Garmin Pilot, but it does continuously log a great deal of engine, flight, navigation, and autopilot data at 1 second resolution to the front access SD card in a G3X Touch flight display. If you have 2 displays, you can even automatically maintain a backup set of logs, all date/time stamped with destination airport in the log file name, on the second display.

While not as automatic, you don't have to have a tablet running the entire flight to avoid missing data.

At your convenience, you can log into your FlyGarmin account, click on the Logbook feature at the top, then click on "Upload Flight Logs" to upload any of the SD card stored flight data logs collected by your G3X Touch system to create an entry in your logbook.

It is really quick and easy way to see your flight on the map and all the engine and flight parameters. It even shows the flight director and armed/active autopilot modes as you re-fly your flight or instrument approach. The lateral and vertical deviation bars are shown on a mock PFD so you can see how well those were centered when flying an LPV or ILS approach.

In this example from my FlyGarmin Logbook I am re-playing an LPV approach that was flown. The GP is captured, the plane is 2.8 nm from the runway, and since the needles are both centered, you can tell the autopilot is flying and not me!

 

 
 
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Somebody shared a file of their Garmin data acquisition recently...

It was such a good question, I asked it twice...   :)

It was a holy cow amount of data, both engine, and flight...

Looks like Big G has really done a great job with the latest version of engine/flight monitoring...

So... while researching the hardware don’t forget the installation costs.... there has got to be a ton of wires/wiring to go with that...

ton, figuratively speaking....   :)

Best regards,

-a-

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On 3/24/2021 at 6:05 PM, PT20J said:

That’s where I’m headed. I started adding up all the money, down time and frustration I’ve had trying to keep a bunch of legacy avionics going the last 2-1/2 years and decided that the improved reliability and integration were worth the pain of one big swap out. Plus, I really miss having a flight director. So, I’m getting quotes on a G3X, GNS 650Xi, G5, GNC 255, GMA 342, GFC 500, and JPI 900. The only thing I’m keeping is the GTX 345 I installed a couple of years ago.

Skip

Following.  Please keep us posted and share if you can. Very interested in this. 

 

Thanks,

FF

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