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Anyone know this guy?


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9 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Still has your name on it.

‘This is my C-140. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of people with 411 Walnut St Green Cove springs address.

‘It’s a mail forwarding agency that’s used by people who live on a boat and cruise and have no address, Also many RV’s and quite a few traveling contract Nurses etc.

‘It gives you a legal address, and will establish you as a Florida resident, and allows you to vote etc. Fl has this figured out, for example the address on my Fl drivers license was  the Coast Guard registration number for my boat, I had on file at the Clay County Courthouse a “document of domicile” that named my boat as my domicile.

‘However since 911 the Patriot act doesn’t allow you not have a physical land address, and they know about the mail forwarding agencies, so I was not allowed to have a bank account etc., so we were forced to lie and use a family members address, USAA knows all about this, that address was not used to send any mail to etc., it was only to satisfy the Federal Government. ’Funny thing is, your allowed to live in a box under the main street bridge, but your not allowed by the US Govenment to live in an RV or on a boat.

This combats terrorism?

 

Yes, I realize that you take pride in your ability and foresight to maintain privacy, and yes, I realize many people do not use the methods you've described and have their information publicly available.  To clarify, however, my original question was not about whether it is legal, but whether it should be considered good form for an individual to post some person's name and address on a social website without their awareness or permission.

Edited by jaylw314
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To clarify, however, my original question was not about whether it is legal, but whether it should be considered good form for an individual to post some person's name and address on a social website without their awareness or permission.

I agree, I would not be happy, this makes it too easy for people to google personal information.
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6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

BTW, it’s not just airplanes, boats have same tracking issue, called AIS instead of ADSB.

https://www.marinetraffic.com

yes, but your not required to have your AIS on, and there is even a way to turn the transmit off, plus it’s not tied to you in an easy to search government database for all to see. Commercial vessels are required or have it on, but often don’t. Fishermen don’t want to advertise where they are fishing for example. There are places cruisers go that your speed, direction vessel type and location you don’t want broadcasted, even in the America’s.

Many things come to boats first then aviation later, EPIRBS is one and as you note AIS is the other, you don’t get weather on AIS though.

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6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


There is countless people who don’t have a USA based physical address. ExPats living overseas for example. I used 411 address as my physical address on my license and it was mailing address. It sounds like you raise some red flags by not doing that.

Then they are breaking the law, don’t believe me, look it up, I too was breaking the law and got away with it until we opened an account for the Wife, that’s when they caught it.

‘I’m going to guess some kind of list exists that has mail forwarding address that gets checked now, that didn’t get checked originally, or maybe it’s just new accounts that get checked? Cause my accounts had existed for decades, since I was Military, who knows? 

Here is the law, it’s in there somewhere among all the legalese https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-finance/Terrorist-Finance-Tracking/Documents/staterule.pdf

Ai a glance it seems new accounts will trip them looking, existing accounts prior to the law, maybe not.

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3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Yes, I realize that you take pride in your ability and foresight to maintain privacy, and yes, I realize many people do not use the methods you've described and have their information publicly available.  To clarify, however, my original question was not about whether it is legal, but whether it should be considered good form for an individual to post some person's name and address on a social website without their awareness or permission.

This web site is moderated I’m sure they all are, I’m a moderator in a huge one called Cruisers Forum.

‘The Mods whoever they are can of course take the post down or moderate it.

But without posting his name etc, how do you ask the question of does anyone know this guy?

Edited by A64Pilot
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8 hours ago, Bolter said:

Your tail number shows as a Georgia LLC.  Are you sure they do not just base their business in Montana and register you in your home state?  This LLC traces back to 368 Briar Patch Lane, Norman Park, GA, 31771, USA

image.thumb.png.dbc401e2d947a1091027f9a94598d050.png

Original owner, not sure how long it takes the FAA to change their records? Title company was supposed to have it changed the day the aircraft was sold. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to get the address changed for the 140, but it’s not posted either, and the FAA wonders why their registration database is still a mess.

‘For those that are interested, I was offered the LLC along with the aircraft, PO had done that, if you purchase the LLC and the assets of the LLC are the aircraft, apparently there is no tax due.

Dosent sound right, but apparently it’s true and legal, but I didn’t want a Ga. LLC

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4 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

This web site is moderated I’m sure they all are, I’m a moderator in a huge one called Cruisers Forum.

‘The Mods whoever they are can of course take the post down or moderate it.

But without posting his name etc, how do you ask the question of does anyone know this guy?

1) MS is self regulated...

2) No active moderating going on...

3) To ask if anyone knows this person... pics and tail numbers or whole names usually work...

4) Sure, anyone can look up the rest...

5) Some people get uncomfortable when their private details are discussed in public places...

6) Other people get annoyed if it causes them to get more junk mail, or spam, or phone calls...

7) proverbs of mom...   Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should...

8) Judgement... hard to know what is uncomfortable for other people...

9) the usual time you will see this much information being shared openly is after the accident...

10) When we start discussing the right to write... then Mooney aviating has become lost.... self regulation takes over...

PP thoughts of the typical process used around here...

Essentially, moderation costs money...

MS has grown as large as it has, by not charging membership fees... there are ads or donations to keep things running...

Nobody is writing rules, or enforcing them...

Its a simple community... most people here... want to be here... it is difficult to find the depth and breadth of Mooney knowledge anywhere else, so easily...

PP thoughts only, not a constitutional legal guy...

Best regards,

-a-

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OK, I deleted the Screen shot.

However if any think having their personal data freely posted by the US Government is an invasion of privacy, they ought to complain.

‘I know many did in IA conferences to the FAA,but they pretty much laughed at us when we did, one even told me that if I didn’t want Flight Aware posting my current whereabouts to hire a Lawyer and have him petition each agency to not do so. That’s how I learned how the wealthy and celebrities do it.

 

Edited by A64Pilot
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4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

OK, I deleted the Screen shot.

However if any think having their personal data freely posted by the US Government is an invasion of privacy, they ought to complain.

‘I know many did in IA conferences to the FAA,but they pretty much laughed at us when we did, one even told me that if I didn’t want Flight Aware posting my current whereabouts to hire a Lawyer and have him petition each agency to not do so. That’s how I learned how the wealthy and celebrities do it.

Thank you.  FWIW, I think you should be worried more about government invasion of privacy at a local level as opposed to the national level.  Local governments have more de facto knowledge of you, and you are far more likely to run into somebody with an axe to grind locally

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On 3/19/2021 at 7:48 AM, ArtVandelay said:


I think this ^ was the reason you had problems.

No, USAA never saw the drivers license. They have a list of Mail forwarding agencies, they told me that, they weren’t being nasty, they just couldn’t break the law. They told me to just use a family members address, they told me they would never send any mail there etc., they just need a physical address. 

‘I fought it as a matter of principle I guess, but finally relented and gave them my Father in Law’s address. Maybe stupid, but I don’t think the Government should be able to mandate how and where I live. I was Retired and wanted to live a nomadic lifestyle, A Federal law says if you do, you can’t have a bank account, and I think that’s wrong, so to to live like that, you have to perjure yourself, and to require that is wrong. 

I know it’s sort of tilting at windmills, but I believe when I see injustice, your supposed to complain. not break laws, not set other people’s property on fire calling it a demonstration, but your supposed to raise your hand and go on record that you disagree.

What tripped the check was a NEW account, for new accounts the law says you must check, but apparently for existing ones you don’t.

‘I really gave some thought to doing what the Blue’s brothers did in the movie, they gave their Parole officer Wriggly’s field address, but figured that might get me in trouble and USAA is great for someone who is overseas and can’t go to an office and send faxes etc as their rules and system is set up to handle a deployed Soldier and if your in Afghanistan or whatever, getting something notarized and faxed is tough.

‘Same if your out in the Bahama’s “Family Islands”, So I didn’t want to lose USAA because they were following the law

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Simply doing an LLC in any state that owns your plane (car, boat, RV) isn't going to get you very much anonymity.  Finding info on a secretary of state's website isn't hard.  Although, sometimes they make you pay for the info. Really, to be anonymous, you have to layer the legal entities including having at least one outside the US.  Having one entity in the layer that you have someone else control would be even better.  That's how some very high net worth people are able to make tracking their asset ownership harder.

I know one very high net worth family that wanted their aircraft no longer tracked for personal and competitive reasons (they owned a large retail company in the US that was rapidly expanding into new territories).  The aircraft was simply owned by a sub of the parent company, all logos stripped off the plane, and flightaware blocked their their blocking service.  Their lawyers were happy with that.

For a small fee, flightaware blocks N numbers.  Just fill out the form and pay your money.  You can also get a dotcom N number "callsign" (different for each flight) so only the people you want tracking you can.   ATC recognizes the dotcom call sign and you can program your ADSB-Out equipment to show the dotcom number assigned.  Don't be classist.  Anybody can do this.  Not just celebrities and the uber rich.  Frankly, this route is probably cheaper than going through the whole LLC machination if you just don't want someone to track your flights online.   

I won't even get into KYC laws in banking. So much to unpack there.  I go through many hours of training every year on that topic.

William

 

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Explain this dot com N number please, do you have a link? I know what we called in the military as Hollywood call signs are allowed, but thought N number must not change.

‘In other words calling your self Angel flight if your in fact an Angel flight is allowed, but I didn’t think you could transmit anything but your real N number on ADSB?

I’ve confirmed anonymous mode works as in if you have it selected and your squawking 1200 ATC only sees VFR, but get assigned a squawk and that’s no longer the case.

‘Once the FAA changes registration and my LLC is displayed as the owner, I’ll get you smart guys to check and see how easy it is to put my name on it. I know it’s possible, nothing is absolute, I’d just prefer it not be easy and widely available.

 I want to avoid this, yesterday’s flight. Look on the bottom, where it says “purchase entire flight history” Geez how can that not be considered an invasion of privacy?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1141N

I don't think I should be required to pay someone to not track me, how many flight tracking agencies are there? Are you supposed pay them all, I assume on a yearly basis or is it monthly?

Edited by A64Pilot
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This link and it's embedded links should keep you busy for awhile.  https://flttrack.fltplan.com/FltPlanInfo/DCMCallSigns.htm

This link does a good job of explaining dotcom and other ways to protect aircraft privacy.  Note, the link references jets and turboprops wrt the FAA LADD program.  You can ignore that limitation.  The FAA's LADD program is not limited to type of aircraft.  Link: https://ladd.faa.gov/

A little googling will probably get you a lot more info.

Attached is a screen print of my aircraft ownership from the Delaware Secretary of State (should be obvious I didn't do it for tracking reasons).  You will note, for another $20 you can get more info. likely to include the formation docs which have my name all over them.  I say likely, as usually for work I have my lawyers pull formation docs for me.  

 

William

 

Division of Corporations - Filing.pdf

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3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I don't think I should be required to pay someone to not track me, how many flight tracking agencies are there? Are you supposed pay them all, I assume on a yearly basis or is it monthly?

This could be possibly something to use.  It is through the FAA.  I think it is free unlike blocking at the user level on Flightaware which costs a minimum of $600/yr.

LADD (faa.gov)

They go through the requests monthly on the 1st Thursday of each month.  So depending on when you submit your request, it could take a month to see it go into effect.

A quote from the website:

FAA Source

With the FAA source option, your aircraft data is limited to FAA use only. No FAA flight data will be available to external vendors. If you are considering limiting data at FAA Source, FAA flight data on your aircraft will not be available to internet web sites.

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1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said:

This could be possibly something to use.  It is through the FAA.  I think it is free unlike blocking at the user level on Flightaware which costs a minimum of $600/yr.

LADD (faa.gov)

They go through the requests monthly on the 1st Thursday of each month.  So depending on when you submit your request, it could take a month to see it go into effect.

A quote from the website:

FAA Source

With the FAA source option, your aircraft data is limited to FAA use only. No FAA flight data will be available to external vendors. If you are considering limiting data at FAA Source, FAA flight data on your aircraft will not be available to internet web sites.

Outstanding, I’m going to try this route, because having to pay $600 per year for a private agency to not display my locations etc that’s freely provided to them by the US Government, seems a bit like black mail or extortion?

How many flight tracking agencies are there, and do they all want $600 a year? You can say that not class discrimination if you want, but it sure looks like it to me.

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It seems the LADD program prevents the FAA from sharing data with private companies, but that will not prevent ADS-B "listening sites" from collecting your data and feeding it to The Collective.  I think that is where a lot of posted data is coming from.  You would need to pair this with the dotcom flight names.

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On 3/17/2021 at 2:35 PM, A64Pilot said:

Maybe they are lying, and I’m certain a court order gets all your info, but John Q. public isn’t.

 

I guess it depends upon who you're trying to hide from... 

A lot of people have access to research databases.  And if you own the LLC there is no way not to have the info show up in a lot of different database.  You own it so there *IS* a trail.  Yes, the kid down the block or the couple you see at the store all the time handing out brochures may not have access.  But even they could easily find someone that could. 

If you think you're really going to hide yourself from the Gov, legal issues, or even just someone that can spend a few buck, you're not.  If you want to hide your plane from the guy down the block that loads boxes at Amazon or the guy that drinks to much and is always at that RV Park you like to go to a few times a year...  Go for it.  Guess the question is what's the cost and what do you REALLY get in return.  

Have any friends that are lawyers?  Assuming there's nothing you don't want them to find out about you, ask them to run a check and see what they find.  Bet in just a few minutes they'll find your LLC, Montana or not...  

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Pairing LADD with PIA should get you absolute flight anonymity from even data collectors using other means than the source FAA info.   The NBAA website has some good info on that.  It was a link embedded in one of the ones I referenced.   I would say, the need for flight tracking anonymity for 99.99% of those on Mooneyspace pales in comparison to the needs of a large corporation, especially a private one.

Providing public info or charging people to not provide public info is not anywhere near black mail or extortion.  Look up those terms.  If someone doesn't like the cost of flightaware's dotcom program they could always develop their own with the FAA and charge what they think is fair (free to all Mooney owners for instance).  Nothing is impossible.

All this hyper anonymity stuff is a bit tin foil hat.

William

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You guys don’t get it, I have no need to hide, but I don’t like it that anyone can write down my tail number and see where a I’ve been and even purchase every flight I’ve ever made.

You can’t find out personal info from the license number of a car from a government website can you? Why?

Why does Google blur faces and license plates on their photos?

Does there seem to be a disparity between private aircraft and the rest of the world? Why?

I do think the Montana LLC will keep my ownership private from casual searches, nothing will of course from extraordinary means.

You do lock your house or car when you leave don’t you? Why a professional thief can still break in, so why bother?  

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14 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

You guys don’t get it....



Leading with an insult...

If you were looking for support...

This probably won’t help your cause...  :)

Maybe they do get... and they are turning a deaf ear...


Somebody would need to pick up the mantle and run with it...

Gaining support for a good idea takes getting as many people as possible to be informed...

 

AOPA is typically a great resource for battling government over reach...

The argument for privacy is often won on the basis of Constitutionality and safety...

 

With a smart phone... when they were new... we used to look up who the owner of a car was... and get their home address as well...

That changed quickly in NJ...

video cameras improved some people’s behavior as well... knowing there are eyes everywhere with memory attached... and shareable...

Airplanes are one step more difficult to follow home... it is a challenge to read somebody’s N number at 10k’...

 

Stay focussed...   

You want the support for this important issue...


What would you tell the FAA they are doing wrong...

Why is it wrong...

What would you do to stop it..?

 

if it takes longer than an elevator pitch... you need to work on the delivery.... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

You can’t find out personal info from the license number of a car from a government website can you? Why?

In many states anybody with a PI license, or $50 to hire a PI to do it, can look up registration info for a car license.   If somebody wants to know who you are and where you live, they're a few bucks and a phone call from it at all times.

Quote

Why does Google blur faces and license plates on their photos?

They don't always, but I think when they do it's just to make it harder for somebody else's AI to exploit their IP, and also for the obvious liability reasons.

Quote

You do lock your house or car when you leave don’t you? Why a professional thief can still break in, so why bother?  

You may have knocked down your own premise here.

 

Edited by EricJ
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