A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) I ask as it was my Father’s Mooney from long ago, He sold it again guessing maybe 30 years ago, but it seems it still kicking. N9241M Edited March 19, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I ask as it was my Father’s Mooney from long ago, He sold it again guessing maybe 30 years ago, but it seems it still kicking. N941M On the off chance it is one of us here (or someone connected to one of us), it would probably be good form to remove the registered owner's name and address? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0TreeLemur Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 That's publicly available info. Type in my N number and you'll get my address. It's the law, isn't it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Or get smart and keep your home address off your registration. ;-) -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 It’s been years ago but I was at Sun-N-Fun and some guy was walking around general camping writing down N numbers, so I asked him what was he doing. ‘He said I’m a Spotter. I asked what’s a spotter, apparently there are for some reason or another groups of people that track aircraft movements, for some reason, and apparently post this data on internet forums, this is legal, it’s not an invasion of privacy? ‘I was never comfortable with that. ‘I was stationed in Germany for three years and learned a lot while I was over there, they take privacy SERIOUSLY, for example it’s against the law to have more than one phone connected to a line, reason is someone can pick up the other line and listen in. I read that the Google car that drove around taking pictures was stopped almost immediately, taking pictures like that just simply isn’t allowed, maybe now they can do it by blurring faces and car tags etc. But the German’s learned the hard way 60 or 70 years ago to take privacy seriously. ‘I’ve learned that if your wealthy you have your Lawyers contact flight aware and the other tracking agencies and have them remove your tail number from any tracking, look it up, almost all Biz jets say private for an N number. ‘Try calling the local Police station with a tag number because your curious who owns that car and see what kind of response you get. But it’s public knowledge for aircraft? Its one reason I don’t like ADSB. This time I bought the airplane with an out of State LLC, it would be tough to tie that aircraft to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 I really wouldn't assume having an out of state LLC is going to hide much. You are the principal of the LLC so not so hard to find. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, PeteMc said: I really wouldn't assume having an out of state LLC is going to hide much. You are the principal of the LLC so not so hard to find. cut and pasted from here https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/vehicle-llc Maybe they are lying, and I’m certain a court order gets all your info, but John Q. public isn’t. ‘They do aircraft too, aircraft are less expensive and easier as there is no license tag, title etc. Benefits of Using a Montana LLC to Own an RV: Remain anonymous. When you hire us to form your Montana LLC, we keep your personal name off public record. Keep your license plate information private. Anyone can look up a license plate number and get the same and address of who the vehicle is licensed to. If you have a Montana LLC own your RV or motor home, they find your company name and address. License plate lookup. Anyone can look up a license plate number and get the name and address of who that vehicle is registered to. The privacy of this alone is worth the whole process. It’s time to play with the rules the rich created. Loopholes, loopholes, loopholes. Our laws are written by people who have the money to buy lobbyists–people who basically buy and sell laws that they have interest in. The middle class gets stuck playing with the rules the rich have written for themselves. You finally have a loophole now that you can use to make the cost of owning and RV less. Data. If you own an RV in your personal name, your personal name gets associated with assets. Data aggregating companies will get your data from public registrations, associate you with a certain amount of assets, and sell your information over and over and over again, so that company after company can proposition you with offers to buy stuff. By not owning an RV personally, you can keep your personal name from being associated with assets, and you will reduce the amount of solicitations you would get otherwise. Edited March 17, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Then there is this: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2021-03-04/us-government-indicts-aircraft-title-trust-company-owner -Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZuluZulu Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 6 hours ago, A64Pilot said: This time I bought the airplane with an out of State LLC, it would be tough to tie that aircraft to me. If anonymity is what you want, do what jet owners do and use the Bank of Utah's trust department. *not legal advice* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 The U.K. Has spotters for all kinds of things... Its a sport... I think the US has bird watchers... and puzzle users... -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said: That's publicly available info. Type in my N number and you'll get my address. It's the law, isn't it? Everyone's home address is publicly available if you look in the right place, but to me there's a line between having that info on a government website that people have to access to do a search (and, at least theoretically, have that search logged and tracked), and having that info posted on a unregulated private website to magnify its exposure and risk. Edited March 18, 2021 by jaylw314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 hours ago, MB65E said: Then there is this: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2021-03-04/us-government-indicts-aircraft-title-trust-company-owner -Matt Wow, did you read that? I’m going out in a limb and going to say that the issue was foreign nationals drug trafficking and other illegal activities, not LLC’s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 55 minutes ago, jaylw314 said: Everyone's home address is publicly available if you look in the right place, but to me there's a line between having that info on a government website that people have to access to do a search (and, at least theoretically, have that search logged and tracked), and having that info posted on a unregulated private website to magnify its exposure and risk. Were it not available to any and all, I’d agree, but the FAA has determined for whatever reason that aircraft owners are allowed zero privacy, registration is openly available as well as our every flight, because your not allowed to turn off your ADSB. If it bothers you, and I think it should, make your complaints to those that might could make a change, elected officials. AOPA etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 Easier and cheaper than an LLC, just get a post office box. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 On 3/16/2021 at 10:37 PM, MB65E said: Or get smart and keep your home address off your registration. ;-) -Matt You mean falsify your records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 30 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said: You mean falsify your records? Use your work address, get a P.O. box, start an LLC, etc. Many easy, legal ways to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: You mean falsify your records? Not at all, never. There is no requirement to use your home address. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) On 3/18/2021 at 5:11 AM, ArtVandelay said: Easier and cheaper than an LLC, just get a post office box. Still has your name on it. ‘This is my C-140. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of people with 411 Walnut St Green Cove springs address. ‘It’s a mail forwarding agency that’s used by people who live on a boat and cruise and have no address, Also many RV’s and quite a few traveling contract Nurses etc. ‘It gives you a legal address, and will establish you as a Florida resident, and allows you to vote etc. Fl has this figured out, for example the address on my Fl drivers license was the Coast Guard registration number for my boat, I had on file at the Clay County Courthouse a “document of domicile” that named my boat as my domicile. ‘However since 911 the Patriot act doesn’t allow you not have a physical land address, and they know about the mail forwarding agencies, so I was not allowed to have a bank account etc., so we were forced to lie and use a family members address, USAA knows all about this, that address was not used to send any mail to etc., it was only to satisfy the Federal Government. ’Funny thing is, your allowed to live in a box under the main street bridge, but your not allowed by the US Govenment to live in an RV or on a boat. This combats terrorism? Edited March 19, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Still has your name on it. ‘This is my C-140. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of people with 411 Walnut St Green Cove springs address. ‘It’s a mail forwarding agency that’s used by people who live on a boat and cruise and have no address, Also many RV’s and quite a few traveling contract Nurses etc. ‘It gives you a legal address, and will establish you as a Florida resident, and allows you to vote etc. Fl has this figured out, for example the address on my Fl drivers license was the Coast Guard registration number for my boat, I had on file at the Clay County Courthouse a “document of domicile” that named my boat as my domicile. ‘However since 911 the Patriot act doesn’t allow you not have a physical land address, and they know about the mail forwarding agencies, so I was not allowed to have a bank account etc., so we were forced to lie and use a family members address, USAA knows all about this, that address was not used to send any mail to etc., it was only to satisfy the Federal Government. ’Funny thing is, your allowed to live in a box under the main street bridge, but your not allowed by the US Govenment to live in an RV or on a boat. This combats terrorism?But your name is still on it, and your PMB 12402 is unique. So I don’t understand your why you think it’s better?I use SBI as well. And it was my address for 3 banks and a brokerage, no problem, but it was my address on my drivers license, not my registration number. The point was worrying about someone using ADSB to see you away from your house (which may not be empty of course) and try to rob you. A simple PO Box will accomplish this as would a SBI service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 On 3/17/2021 at 3:25 PM, carusoam said: The U.K. Has spotters for all kinds of things... Its a sport... I think the US has bird watchers... and puzzle users... -a- The US has more affordable and less regulated living. We DO while they spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: But your name is still on it, and your PMB 12402 is unique. So I don’t understand your why you think it’s better? I use SBI as well. And it was my address for 3 banks and a brokerage, no problem, but it was my address on my drivers license, not my registration number. The point was worrying about someone using ADSB to see you away from your house (which may not be empty of course) and try to rob you. A simple PO Box will accomplish this as would a SBI service. I don’t think it’s better, I was showing it’s not as you say it still has my name on it. ‘We have sold the boat and are dirt dwellers again, and I bought the Mooney with a Montana LLC, which would be tough to tie to me. Government can of course, but some criminal can’t look at flight aware and know I’m not home, out of State etc. which would be real easy for one to do if I had my house address on the registration, there are other reasons of course that’s just one. ‘I got away with SBI as an address for USAA, but when we went to open an account for my Wife, they “caught on”. USAA was going to cancel my accounts that I’ve had with them for decades, the statement of domicile didn’t satisfy the requirement, nor did voter registration cards, law says you MUST have a physical address. a Quick Google brought this up along with the law of course which is real hard to read so I didn’t link to it. https://www.fcnbank.com/patriot-act/ Edited March 19, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 20 hours ago, A64Pilot said: I don’t think it’s better, I was showing it’s not as you say it still has my name on it. ‘We have sold the boat and are dirt dwellers again, and I bought the Mooney with a Montana LLC, which would be tough to tie to me. Government can of course, but some criminal can’t look at flight aware and know I’m not home, out of State etc. which would be real easy for one to do if I had my house address on the registration, there are other reasons of course that’s just one. ‘I got away with SBI as an address for USAA, but when we went to open an account for my Wife, they “caught on”. USAA was going to cancel my accounts that I’ve had with them for decades, the statement of domicile didn’t satisfy the requirement, nor did voter registration cards, law says you MUST have a physical address. a Quick Google brought this up along with the law of course which is real hard to read so I didn’t link to it. https://www.fcnbank.com/patriot-act/ Your tail number shows as a Georgia LLC. Are you sure they do not just base their business in Montana and register you in your home state? This LLC traces back to Briar Patch Lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Don't remember if that's the address I found in about 5 min. or not. There was the Agent for the LLC as well. But it was easy to find the original filing of the LLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 ‘I got away with SBI as an address for USAA, but when we went to open an account for my Wife, they “caught on”. USAA was going to cancel my accounts that I’ve had with them for decades, the statement of domicile didn’t satisfy the requirement, nor did voter registration cards, law says you MUST have a physical address. a Quick Google brought this up along with the law of course which is real hard to read so I didn’t link to it.https://www.fcnbank.com/patriot-act/There is countless people who don’t have a USA based physical address. ExPats living overseas for example. I used 411 address as my physical address on my license and it was mailing address. It sounds like you raise some red flags by not doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 BTW, it’s not just airplanes, boats have same tracking issue, called AIS instead of ADSB.https://www.marinetraffic.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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