How long should it take to get a ferry permit?

[0TreeLemur]

Ice storm prevented me from getting our M20C to the shop before the annual expired on March 1.  My A&P IA applied for a ferry permit a week ago.   Still no word.  Seems like a black hole of information.   A question for those of you with experience: what is the elapsed time to you expect to receive a ferry permit after you submit the application?  I'm sure it depends on the FSDO, but I'm looking for ballpark numbers.  Days?   Weeks?  How did they notify you?

-Fred

[Raptor05121]

I've gotten one in as little as 6 hours from mechanic contacting the FSDO, but it was literally blowing up their phone because I was at an away airport with the plane sitting and waiting for the okay to go. It really depends on the workload of the FSDO. I know they were home-based because of COVID and only came into the office when needed, but I'm not sure if they're still doing that or back in the office for some official capacity.

[PJClark]

I had to do this last year due to COVID. First I downloaded the PDF form, filled it out, and sent it to the FSDO email I found online.

Crickets and I was starting to panic. then somehow I found this, and it is NOT easy to find--I only just re-found it by going all the way back to last April in my inbox:

awc.faa.gov//awcexternalapplicant

Ii went there, filled out the online thing, and I had the ferry permit the next day. I never, ever heard from anyone at the FSDO about the PDF submittal.

so try this.  

PJ

[Hank]

I needed one a couple of years ago, to visit Cole's for some work I didn't want the New IA doing. Didn't take long, but chasing down a local A&P to sign it was difficult [he was helping his kids move].

Since that awful mess, I moved on to another new IA, he's working out much better. Annual #2 underway. Just wish there was someone at my airport!  There is one A&P there, but he only works on his own plane.

[kortopates]

These are special times due to the Pandemic. There is no telling since many FSDO are closed, you really need to know the status of the FSDO you're expecting to get a ferry permit from since you want to make sure there is someone to answer your request. The usual method of faxing a ferry permit may go unnoticed if no one is there. So you really want your mechanic to verify your contact information before sending blindly. Often we have choices between using a local FSDO or the one at our home base, and if one of those is open for business that's the one you'll be able to get fastest service. But typically it ranges between merely hours to a business day when the mechanic know whom to send it too and what documentation the inspector will be expecting. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I called the inspector I usually deal with and asked him what to do. He sent me a pdf that can be filed in, I filled it in and sent it back to him. He returned an electrically signed copy a few minuets later.

You need to have a good relationship with the FSDO folks to get a quick turn.

[Seth]

It can take a few hours or 2 years depending on your relationship with the FSDO and whats wrong with the airplane.

First ask your A&P their preferred approach. If they have a good relationship you should be good. If they have no relationship, ask them what you should and shouldn’t say, and call the FSDO to make your own contacts to assist with the process.

 

-Seth

[0TreeLemur]

So, things have happened since I posted this question.  I've been contacted by a DAR who is going to fly into my home airport this weekend to inspect the a/c.  He told me that in the covid times, this is the way they want to do it.

I suspect that this stems from the fact that the shop I'm working with is in Mississippi that has no relationship with the Alabama/NW Florida FSDO.  My A&P told me that in Mississippi, it is no problem for him to request a ferry permit and get fast turn-around.

The DAR wants so see the A&P's endorsement in the log certifying that the aircraft is airworthy.  The only reason it technically isn't airworthy is because it's out of annual.

What a pain.  This is the most bureaucracy I've dealt with in a long time, and I work in the government sector!   Anything specific I should be wary of, other than the whole process?

[0TreeLemur]

Followup- according an acquaintance who is extremely well connected in all things aviation, the FAA no longer allows FSDO's to issue ferry permits.  They transitioned that task to DAR's as a matter of policy.  Apparently too many folks were getting ferry permits for unairworthy aircraft and somehow the FAA figured that out.

[N201MKTurbo]

9 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Followup- according an acquaintance who is extremely well connected in all things aviation, the FAA no longer allows FSDO's to issue ferry permits.  They transitioned that task to DAR's as a matter of policy.  Apparently too many folks were getting ferry permits for unairworthy aircraft and somehow the FAA figured that out.

I got one in September.

I will be flying a C310 on a Ferry Permit from Chicago to Phoenix next weekend. There was no DAR involved in that one. 

The airplane owner talked to the FAA inspector in Chicago and he said “If Bob says it is OK, then I’m OK with the ferry permit” Bob is the mechanic working on the plane.

I was supposed to ferry it a month ago, but Bob keeps finding things to fix, which I’m perfectly OK with.

[N201MKTurbo]

9 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Followup- according an acquaintance who is extremely well connected in all things aviation, the FAA no longer allows FSDO's to issue ferry permits.  They transitioned that task to DAR's as a matter of policy.  Apparently too many folks were getting ferry permits for unairworthy aircraft and somehow the FAA figured that out.

The only reason to get a ferry permit is to fly an airplane that isn’t airworthy.

I got my ferry permit to move a C172 I bought from a friends dad who is in a nursing home and will never fly again. The plane was 7 years out of annual. 
 

I had to show the inspector a logbook entry where l certified the plane was “airworthy for flight”

[0TreeLemur]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The only reason to get a ferry permit is to fly an airplane that isn’t airworthy.

I got my ferry permit to move a C172 I bought from a friends dad who is in a nursing home and will never fly again. The plane was 7 years out of annual. 
 

I had to show the inspector a logbook entry where l certified the plane was “airworthy for flight”

What I meant to where I wrote "unairworthy" was "not in safe flyable condition".   Just what I was told, not what I know.

And  you are right, relationships matter.   My A&P IA in Mississippi has no relationship with the folks in Alabama.   That is certainly part of my problem.

[N201MKTurbo]

8 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

What I meant to where I wrote "unairworthy" was "not in safe flyable condition".   Just what I was told, not what I know.

And  you are right, relationships matter.   My A&P IA in Mississippi has no relationship with the folks in Alabama.   That is certainly part of my problem.

A Special Flight Permit, is usually authorized by the FSDO where the flight departs. It helps to have an IA attached to that FSDO apply for the permit.

[0TreeLemur]

22 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

A Special Flight Permit, is usually authorized by the FSDO where the flight departs. It helps to have an IA attached to that FSDO apply for the permit.

Helps, sure.  But my home drome does not have an A&P IA that I can  afford or work with.   A great IA that I used to work with flew west a couple of years ago.

So I pay $500+ for a DAR to tell the FAA that she's airworthy.   What a crock.   There is an analogy here, and that's a strip club.  A lot of money changes hands for no action.  Except I didn't choose to go. 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Helps, sure.  But my home drome does not have an A&P IA that I can  afford or work with.   A great IA that I used to work with flew west a couple of years ago.

So I pay $500+ for a DAR to tell the FAA that she's airworthy.   What a crock.   There is an analogy here, and that's a strip club.  A lot of money changes hands for no action.  Except I didn't choose to go. 

Sometimes....

[Jim Peace]

I had to get a ferry permit one time because a MSC could not do that annual as promised.  They said they would get right on it and a month later they never even touched it...it went out of annual at cable airport and I had to get a ferry permit to take it back to Van Nuys.

I know what I would do in the future if that happened again. 

Also this is why I never take my plane right to the last day for an annual.  Many people try to get an extra month out of it but its a royal ass pain when things go south.

The permit took a day or so.

[WaynePierce]

My plane didn't leave the avionics shop until the week after my annual expired. My AP that does my annual got the ferry permit in a matter of hours, this was November 2020 then he came by the avionics shop and signed off on the permit and I flew to his shop 20 minutes down. The avionics shop, the AP shop are all in Mississippi and are under the Memphis FISDO.

[0TreeLemur]

The permit just arrived in my inbox!   12 days after the first application.  Apparently this DAR inspection thing is an Alabama thing.  The rest of  ya'll are save.   I've heard theories about why the FAA is requiring DARs to issue ferry permits, but won't repeat them here.   I guess it's because we're "special".   Grrrr.

On 3/16/2021 at 10:05 AM, WaynePierce said:

My plane didn't leave the avionics shop until the week after my annual expired. My AP that does my annual got the ferry permit in a matter of hours, this was November 2020 then he came by the avionics shop and signed off on the permit and I flew to his shop 20 minutes down. The avionics shop, the AP shop are all in Mississippi and are under the Memphis FISDO.

I hear you.  My Mississippi-based A&P IA has no problem getting one in Mississippi.   Anyone needing a ferry permit from the Birmingham office, either in Alabama  or NW Florida (LA) must pay a DAR to inspect their aircraft.  That's just the way it is, as the DAR explained it to me.

[cliffy]

Here's the online tool for requesting a ferry permit

Something sounds fishy when a DAR is "required" in all cases JMO

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/phl/local_more/media/ferry_permit.pdf

[N201MKTurbo]

It looks like I’m getting one in Chicago this Friday. I’ll finally get David’s 310 back here.

[N201MKTurbo]

Got the ferry permit yesterday for the 310.

[A64Pilot]

Several years ago somebody must have had a meeting with FAA inspectors, DAR’s MIDO’s etc and told them that they could be personally held responsible for whatever they sign, since then, many don’t want to do anything.

DAR’s , DER’s and yes even IA’s exist to do the FAA’s job, anything any of those can do, you can have the FAA do, just be prepared to wait a very long time, all are delegates of the FAA, the FAA loves to delegate

Edited March 27, 2021 by A64Pilot

[N201MKTurbo]

Well I flew the 310 from Gary IN to Chandler AZ on a ferry permit yesterday. 
 

Let’s see, the main gas gauges didn’t work, the right CHT didn’t work, the EGT gauges didn’t work. The right engine used about 20% more fuel than the left at the same fuel flow on the gauge. If I tried to lean it it died. The right engine feathered every time I throttled back to idle after I landed. I had to wait 1/2 an hour before I could get it restarted to unfeather it. I got two tows of shame, I couldn’t taxi on one engine. The autopilot didn’t work so I had to hand fly it the whole way. The controls were stiff and jerky from lack of lubrication.
 

But I got it home to it’s new owner. It actually performed pretty good. It was truing 185 KTS on 70%

[carusoam]

Lessons in aviation that only a twin can deliver...   

I mentioned yesterday...  leaving Gary, IN... my rental car got a flat tire...   could be the airport is a bit unlucky...

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, carusoam said:

Lessons in aviation that only a twin can deliver...   

I mentioned yesterday...  leaving Gary, IN... my rental car got a flat tire...   could be the airport is a bit unlucky...

-a-

Not the best part of town....