A64Pilot Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 What is the purpose of this? Is there a replacement available? Has anyone simply removed it, I can’t see a purpose except maybe to cover the opening appearance wise? Mine looks bad is broken and torn etc, I’d like to replace it if possible or just remove it if there are no replacements available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 Called windlace and It helps keep wind noise down. Kind of augments the seals. I find that it works as advertised, since the seals are hard to get perfect. They are not as easy to get as the old days when cars had them, but I think I last got them from Aircraft Spruce. You can also get them from most interior shops. When degraded like that, you probably won’t notice a difference removing them, but new ones might make a difference if you have any leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 It’s usually called windlace. It’s primarily decorative. I’ve never seen it fabric covered - usually it’s a foam core covered with cloth-backed vinyl. A number of places make it. I know Airtex sells it by the foot. I bought some from Jaeger (now Wisconsin, I think) Aviation. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 Ordered 4 yds of cloth windlace for $28. Seems to be a simple job, original was cloth covered cardboard, maybe 3/8”? What I ordered is cloth covered foam, 1/2” . Half inch seems to be the common size. Maybe 41 years ago the cardboard was 1/2” who knows? I have an inflatable door seal, it seems to work excellent, and I don’t inflate it and as far as I can tell, no wind noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonydesmet Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: Ordered 4 yds of cloth windlace for $28. Seems to be a simple job, original was cloth covered cardboard, maybe 3/8”? What I ordered is cloth covered foam, 1/2” . Half inch seems to be the common size. Maybe 41 years ago the cardboard was 1/2” who knows? I have an inflatable door seal, it seems to work excellent, and I don’t inflate it and as far as I can tell, no wind noise. Take pictures and a video of your old one. When your new one arrives pull the old one, lay them both flat and match the holes in the new ones. Also mark your first/starter hole in the old one and install in reverse. Reference your pictures if you get stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 You can buy the core at most upholstery shops. Get a one sided foot for your sewing machine and it’s easy to make your own with any material you like. You can also make it with a longer tab and sew in cardboard if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, anthonydesmet said: Take pictures and a video of your old one. When your new one arrives pull the old one, lay them both flat and match the holes in the new ones. Also mark your first/starter hole in the old one and install in reverse. Reference your pictures if you get stuck. Just looking at it, it appears to be a small job, except it seems the interior plastic needs to be removed, then I believe it’s simply screwed into the door mold with small PK screws. ‘I’ll know in a week or two anyway Edited March 5, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said: You can buy the core at most upholstery shops. Get a one sided foot for your sewing machine and it’s easy to make your own with any material you like. You can also make it with a longer tab and sew in cardboard if you like. I still have a Sailrite sewing machine and I think the foot you speak of, but I just bought some already made, I’m not checked out on the sewing machine ‘I expected someone to bring up burn certs, as this is a CAR3 airplane I’ll just placard it No Smoking, I wouldn’t allow that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I still have a Sailrite sewing machine and I think the foot you speak of, but I just bought some already made, I’m not checked out on the sewing machine ‘I expected someone to bring up burn certs, as this is a CAR3 airplane I’ll just placard it No Smoking, I wouldn’t allow that anyway. I’ve found burn certs aren’t that hard to come by. If I go to the big upholstery distributor in Phoenix, and ask about burn certs, they go get a big folder full of burn certs with swatches of fabric. You pick what you want and they go get it for you and include a copy of the burn cert. My mom checked me out on sewing machines as a kid. Then I started fixing them on the side. I assembled a few articles of clothing In my life. Edited March 5, 2021 by N201MKTurbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) I know burn certs aren’t hard to find or all that expensive to have certified, However people are often told by many that you must have burn certs and for that reason you must buy our aircraft interior, even though the local guy who does classic cars can do much better for less, you can’t use his interior, it’s not certified. So they end up an overpriced cheap interior. ‘A CAR 3 airplane only has to have burn certs for those compartments where smoking is allowed, if smoking isn’t allowed, no burn certs are required. ‘You also must supply ash trays in the compt if smoking is allowed too, so if you have removed ash trays, you should placard the aircraft No Smoking. If memory serves these had to be a particular type of ashtray too, I think they had to have a lid so a cigarette would smother, but not certain. Where I worked we built new aircraft that had no ash trays and the interior materials had not been burn certified because we placarded the aircraft No Smoking. Edited March 5, 2021 by A64Pilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 Remove the old one carefully... Line the new one up next to it... There are cuts that are important for length and location.... And screw holes.... And where to remove the foam core.... If you copy everything exactly... the windlace will look perfect.... If you mess it up....the windlace will tell everyone that has done it before... that it was your first... It really is a complex thing to have it shaped nicely to smoothly follow the curves of the door... It was one of the most valuable upgrades for my M20C... When we got it... the ragged thing blew in the wind... next to the SIC’s eyeballs... Not a confidence builder... Get enough for both doors... I bought mine from the company that supplies rugs and sidewalls... good quality, low cost... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 4 hours ago, A64Pilot said: I know burn certs aren’t hard to find or all that expensive to have certified, However people are often told by many that you must have burn certs and for that reason you must buy our aircraft interior, even though the local guy who does classic cars can do much better for less, you can’t use his interior, it’s not certified. So they end up an overpriced cheap interior. ‘A CAR 3 airplane only has to have burn certs for those compartments where smoking is allowed, if smoking isn’t allowed, no burn certs are required.‘ We went through this whole discussion a few years ago. Most people here know that burn certificates are not required for our CAR 3 airplanes. You should read the whole thing a little closer, though. The materials used must meet a recognized standard for flammability. No specific standard is mentioned, but it must meet something. It’s likely wise to include that standard in the logbook sign off, as well as a reference to the applicable CAR 3 chapter and section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 15 hours ago, A64Pilot said: ‘I expected someone to bring up burn certs, as this is a CAR3 airplane I’ll just placard it No Smoking, I wouldn’t allow that anyway. You should also placard it "No Electrical Fires Allowed" so the Mooney knows not to have any electrical shorts that may cause a fire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 When talking about electrical fires you really open up a can of worms. PVC/Nylon wire which was discontinued I believe in 1972 is about he only wire used in our category of aircraft that will actually burn, however nylon wire ties will burn rather well and in my opinion should never be used, they also will break wires, wires should be laced not tied. Brings us to clamps used for bundles of wires, the ones with black rubber, I believe the rubber will burn, the ones with thinner white covering won’t I don’t think. CAR 3 burn standards are rather “loose” so in truth if your concerned about furnishings burning, you need to replace all of the furnishing in the aircraft with something that meets FAR 23 standards Hopefully we don’t have any Kapton wire, I’ve looked and didn’t see any in my airplane, but of course couldn’t look everywhere. Kapton is easy to spot, it’s a reddish / amber color, not white, if there you can’t miss it. If fires concern you, and they should, get a good Halon fire extinguisher, don’t cheap out with a dry chemical one, discharge a dry chemical one in a cockpit and you won’t be able to see or breathe. If your an environmentalist and are against Halon, there is Halotron, not as good as Halon, but better than nothing. I don’t know if it’s approved, maybe only Halon is. Many countries have outlawed Halon, I don’t know what they do. I was going to start a thread on where to mount a fire extinguisher on a Mooney, considering it needs to be mounted in a place that the pilot can get to it while flying, other aircraft I’ve mounted one either between or in front of the pilots seat, neither seems to be viable in a Mooney, so I don’t really know where to mount one. As a kid I was trapped under a farm tractor and burnt down my shoulder and back from hydraulic fluid, plus I was sure that it was going to burn as the battery shorted against the hood of the tractor and burned through the steel and fuel was draining out over everything so I’m afraid of fires more than the average person. But I’m not worried about the windlace, especially when the one the airplane came with is fabric covered cardboard, sure the cardboard could have been treated who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 A64, It is pleasant getting to know you... You have some stellar experience. My 65C’s windlace was fabric over some ancient foam that was hard as a rock... after 35 years... Your M20J probably got saddled with the same material... Fortunately there are more modern materials available today... As far as projects go... you will have to share the number of hours it takes you to complete it... I get the feeling it might not be a whole hour if you stay focused on it... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 Well, I can tell where not to mount it: In a recess on the front of the spar by the left rear seat -- which is where Mooney put it on my M20J. It appeared that neither previous owner had ever had it serviced so I removed it for servicing. I had to put the front seats full forward and get down on my hands and knees to wrestle it out. It is inaccessible from the pilot's seat -- especially if you have the armrest. It is pretty much a useless deduction from useful load. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 https://www.ebay.com/itm/STITCHED-CLOTH-HEADLINER-WINDLACE-FORD-CHRYSLER-GM-SILVER-GREY-GRAY-TOP-QUALITY/112323266887?hash=item1a26fd0947:g:n1QAAOxyOM5RbFu1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A64Pilot Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 This is where I bought it, $28 and “free” shipping, two things surprised me, first they shipped the day I ordered it, second they shipped UPS and sent me the tracking number. https://jjautofabrics.com/search.php?page=1§ion=product&search_query=windlace I think I’ll buy from these guys again. ‘I hope it won’t take but an hour or so, pulling the plastic may take at least that long. Right now I’m buffing, my knees are shot from arthritis so all I got done today was the horizontal, tomorrow I’ll go for left wing, day after right. I can’t stand but for maybe an hour, that’s about it. ‘In my 20’s I could have done the whole airplane by lunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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