Denver Trip

[74657]

We have a wedding to attend in Breck next June (my wife is a planner.......) and I would like to fly the Mooney out there from Michigan.  Any recommendations on airports?  Im not looking to do any mountain flying, was thinking about landing in the denver area and driving the rest.  It's a touch over 800 miles from my airport so depending upon winds, we will probably stop half way.

Thanks.

[panther1400]

Centennial is a nice place with a hotel right by the tower, if you stay there park at Denver jet center and tell the hotel you want the jet center discount I think it was about 70-80 a night.  Ramada is the hotel I thought it was nice stay with pool and breakfast.  Also Arapahoe aero is a good Mooney Center if you need something.

[231flyer]

We have a house in Granby (60 miles north of Breck) and fly directly into the Granby airport during the non-snow months.  GNB is a great airport (major upgrades to the 5000 ft runway last year) with easy approach plus reasonable SS Avgas and Jet A.  We fly into Rocky Mountain Metro (BJC - formerly known as Jeffco Airport) during the winter months.  BJC is closer to the "mountains" than centennial and the traffic is a little easier since you avoid the whole I-25 mess.  We use Denver Air as our FBO.  Nice folks and great service but you do pay Denver prices for gas.  GNB is usually a dollar cheaper. Btw Denver Air will fix you up at one of the area hotels at crew rates......we have been socked in more than once over the last 12 years. Another option is Kremmling (20V) about 50 miles north of Breck.  Beautiful flying country and both Mountain airports are just beyond the front range.  We file DVV PENEY KGNB (or 20V).  The MEA is 14500 and you will fly over corona pass(12000 ft).  

[Steve Dawson]

This is great information,

I have a ski trip planned for Denver in January, pending weather. Where woiuld I find information on mountain flying and since some mooneyspacers have experiance here, is there any advice?

Thanks,

Steve, M20J

[231flyer]

I took a full day mountain flying course in Vail (KEGE) way back in 1993.  Sportys has numerous videos and books on the subject.  I also found some great tips at http://www.pilotfriend.com/safe/safety/introduction_mountain.htm.  

I highly recommend the course in Vail (combine it with your ski trip......thats what I did).  The pop up over the front range into the Granby valley is rather easy except in the winter when weather changes abruptly. You will fly over parts of the Indian Peaks and close to Rocky Mountain National Park and Lake Granby - absolutely spectacular views everywhere. I have very stringent personal minimums (Day VFR, Clouds above 15,000 ft MSL, winds at Corona Pass less than 25 knots etc.). 

 

[flyby201]

I fly into Centennial (APA) whenever I go to Denver and go to TAC Air.  They've never given me any reason to try anyplace else.  If you're financially challenged like many of us they have self-serve (currently $4.95/gal).  I've had issues with other TAC Air locations but they are first rate at APA.

[AndyFromCB]

I second TAC Air at KAPA. Used them 3 times this summer, twice last year. Cheap gas, even cheaper on the weekends, cheap tie down, rental car always ready to go, Hertz counter right as you walk in the door, pleasant staff. Over all a winner. If you're going to land at KAPA, go to the airport website and read their special instructions. They are really swamped most of the time and prefer that you do as little talking as possible.

231flier, is there a reason not to fly to Granby in the winter? Just wondering? Is it not plowed?

[KSMooniac]

TAC Air at KAPA is indeed great!

I've taken my J into and over the CO Rockies a few times and have taken the Colorado Pilots Association mountain flying course (usually offered in the summer).  Winter time helps minimize the density altitude problem, but the weather can be quite dynamic and not work out according to your schedule unless you are very flexible.  There are plenty of nice weather days, but the weather can stay "down" for many days in a row in the winter and trap you in the mountains.  It would be more prudent IMO to land short in the Denver (or Boulder) area and either rent a car or catch a shuttle to the resort to finish the trip unless you have many days of padding in your schedule.  The east side of the front range will have better odds for flyable weather.

[231flyer]

GNB is plowed on a regular basis but I don't have a hangar there.  Its a pain digging out after a snow dump especially compared to BJC and their nice heated hangars.  Its a 90 minute drive to our house from BJC and the drive is beautiful too. Traffic does get quite heavy to the mountains starting Friday afternoon during ski season though.

[The-sky-captain]

I'm in Denver sevral times a year and I always go into FTG/ Frontrange. It's a little further out but right on I-70 and a straight shot to the ski resorts. Cheap fuel, services and great service to boot. My favorite airport in the area.

[RJBrown]

Per google map

KGNB is 86.3 miles and 1 hour 50 min But you have to fly around the class B and over Corona pass to a much smaller airport. Then you would drive over Berthoud pass to get to I 70. A much riskier drive in bad weather. Poor choice I think. fuel $5.98

KBJC 91.2 miles and 1 hour 51 min. Again going around the class B. Weather is worse at BJC than APA because it is higher and right next to the mountains. Fuel $6.27

KAPA is 96.7 miles and 1 hour 55 min but is the closest to get into from your home. Fuel AT Tac Air $4.95/$4.75 weekends.

KFTG 109 miles and 2hours 13 min. Fuel $4.95

I am based at KAPA and may be prejudiced but I think it would be your best choice. Easy to get into from the east. Hotel and rental car on site close in to all amenities. Tac Air has the best fuel prices in area. Front Range would be a close second, not much around it for food or hotels though.

[AndyFromCB]

KGNB -> Unless of course you're happy skiing winter park and mary jane, then if you land here you don't have to drive over any passes. That's why I asked about plowing at Granby ;-)

[231flyer]

Astelmaszek:  I agree.  GNB or 20V gets you to Winterpark, Sol Vista, Steamboat, Breckenridge, A-Basin, Keystone, and Copper Mountain without having to deal with 1-70/I-25 or any high mountain passes.  Kremling (20V) to Breck is 50 miles and a direct shot on US-9 (no high passes).  I am working on acquiring a hangar at GNB so I can fly in directly rather than stop in the Denver area during winter.  Shoveling snow off and around your plane is absolutely miserable ( I guess I have gone soft in my old age).

[74657]

Thanks for the recommendations guys.  I'd like to stay out of the mountains for 2 reason, inexperience and my copilots lack of confidence even if I were experienced......

What is the weather like out there in June?

[FoxMike]

74657,

Weather in June is usually good VFR except for afternoon thunderstorms.  They are high based (usually) and visibility normally good so you can work you way around them.  I would leave the plane in Denver or Colorado Springs and drive even though in the mountains the traffic can be terrible. Putting the airplane under a sun shade or hanger is a good idea.  June thunderstorms sometimes produce hail that will pummel your Mooney.  Flying over the Rocks could save time but without some mountain experience probably not a good idea.  I have based at FTG for a decade and BJC for 25 yrs.  Any of the Metro airports will work.

Good Luck!

 

 

[jackn]

Eastbound at 15,500. Near the skeed intersection. RLG off to the left, Denver & lower ahead.

[231flyer]

Jack:  Beautiful pic of the rockies.  I love those severe clear days especially after a snow dump the night before.  I understand the mountains already have a nice coating of snow.  I plan to be in GNB w/o Nov 28th and will get some pics for the board.  Thanks for sharing.

[jlunseth]

FoxMike's advice about afternoon thunderstorms is right on.  Frequency varies from year to year, but you have to expect them any time after noon during the summer.  Usually its 2-4 pm, but you never really know, it is weather after all.  If flying out from MI, you should take no prisoners on an early departure both going and coming.  We went to the Mooney PPP at BJC this summer (very good FBO).

 I would not hesitate to take a tour through the mountains if it is a VFR day, but I would not fly to a destination up there, weather is too unpredictable to know if and when you will be able to depart.

If you take a tour, the program is to stay over roads and passes going from town to town.  Turbulence is on the lee side of the ridges, so best to stay in the middle of the valleys or on the windward side of the ridges.  No messing at all with weather up there, if it starts to roll in just leave.  And do the trip in the a.m., be back on the ground in Denver for lunch.  Don't mess with the afternoon T-storms, they develop quickly.

Landings and takeoffs are not difficult.  The plane will take longer to settle to the runway, but then the runways are made longer in the mountains to accomodate this.  I had no difficulty taking off with the 231, I don't think you would either with the HP of the Missile.  Go visit Leadville if you get a chance, they give you a certificate for landing there if you ask (highest airport in the US).

One hint on the mountain passes, if you are flying a short distance from one airport to another and thus going through a pass, really watch for traffic.  Invariably, there is someone doing the same thing from the other direction.

We have flown over the mountains several times in the 231, VFR or not, but that is at cruising altitude and well above the peaks, ridges, and any weather.  In my book, you do need to make sure your destination is going to be VFR.  There are approaches at most of the mountain airports, but if you look them over you will find that most of them in the area immediately west of Denver, Kremmling, Buena Vista, Eagle, Leadville, Aspen, Steamboat and the like, have rather high minimums, often around 1,000 - 1,500 AGL or more.  From my experience, the principal purpose of approaches in the mountains is to give ATC a point to direct you to, while allowing you to descend from cruise.  The approaches themselves don't look like they would help much if the weather is low a ground level.  At any rate, I would not depend on being able to make an approach to landing up in the mountains.

[231flyer]

I am sure y'all have seen this before.  Fly smart, fly safe:

[231flyer]

We used TacAir at Centennial (APA) over the Xmas break.  They were great and had the best fuel prices (got the SS rate for a w/e full service top off).  I also discovered 470 around the south side of Denver to I-70 west is 11 minutes shorter than I-25/I-70 to the mountains.  With this new route, it takes the same time to my house in Granby from either airport.