Jump to content

M20G- POH and a few simple questions.


Recommended Posts

Hi! 
First time poster thinking of buying my first airplane. Found a G model on hanger67.com (can’t seem to post the link to it-  attached is a flyer from the website) Was very interested on this model as it’s got the 0-360 (pretty simple and reasonable for Mx costs) but a little longer fuselage to haul the dogs in the back seat (they are 8lbs and 20lbs- I think would fit anywhere!) 

 

Anyways, the main mission is KSDL to KDRO (Scottsdale to Durango). I know we couldn’t pull this off in the middle of summer mid day (DA would be awful and the turbulence... blah) but if we kept the G light and had to make it up to say 12k (the enroute MEA’s are about that) could a G do it? I get it- it’ll be a pig and won’t climb for beans, but I can be a patient man. What is everyone’s thoughts? And does anyone have a POH they could share? 
 

For context I’m an airline guy who bought a place in Durango but can’t stand that drive- I don’t care about glass avionics or what the paint looks like- we just want a tool to get up there and escape the heat in the summer  

 

Thanks everyone- I apologize if my post is messy- cooking and writing at the same time isn’t a good idea  

 

 

 

 

3FD4752C-20A9-4F3B-A097-70933C762961.png

Edited by Mromano
Added flyer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome aboard Mro...
 

My M20C flew often at max gross... at 12.5 k’...

I didn’t know anything about plane ownership... and learned along the way...

We put two kids in the back... and they grew much bigger over the following decade...

 

Remind me again why you have selected the M20G?   Dog space?

The mid body G and the fuel injected 200hp M20E often compete on similar price ranges...  the extra 20hp would be helpful on the warm days getting to altitude...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

Is this what you were trying to do?

https://hanger67.com/aircraft-for-sale

Unfortunately, their website seems to be less than cooperative...  it always resets to the home page instead of what I searched and found...

Exercise your cut and paste skills... to best support your conversation...   :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes that’s exactly the airplane I was looking at recently. Contacted the broker went to voicemail- figured since the market is tight maybe someone had already looked at that airplane. 
 

I was being a little tongue in cheek- of course my dogs can fit. I like the short body airplanes just fine, but the extra length would come in handy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See if you can grab a good pic and post it here...

There is a good chance that either the owner or somebody that knows the owner is here...

Expect that everyone has a few seconds to join a thread... look, and then move on...

They have Mooneys... they don’t stay in any one place for any too long... :)

If you make them got to another site, and have to guess which plane it is....   you will be looking for planes for a really long time...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m getting better at this internet thing... over time....  :)

https://hanger67.com/aircraft/1968-mooney-m20g-statesman/10128

Oddly... it is much nicer than the M20C I bought in Y2K... and prices for the M20G haven’t changed in 20 years... not counting for inflation...

This one has a non-WAAS GPS... as good as they got in the mid 90s... the paint has been updated... the engine hours are relatively low...

Now... what was the question about the POH..?  See what you can find in the download section...

keep in mind, the M20G often gets maligned for being Mooney’s turtle...  it is much nicer and higher performing than the competition...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really important...

The price listed in the OP above... has been reduced 9amu on the website... to 45...

Moving swiftly is important in the current market... but, don’t take any short cuts...

PPIs are your best protection of your wallet...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

I’m getting better at this internet thing... over time....  :)

https://hanger67.com/aircraft/1968-mooney-m20g-statesman/10128

Oddly... it is much nicer than the M20C I bought in Y2K... and prices for the M20G haven’t changed in 20 years... not counting for inflation...

This one has a non-WAAS GPS... as good as they got in the mid 90s... the paint has been updated... the engine hours are relatively low...

Now... what was the question about the POH..?  See what you can find in the download section...

keep in mind, the M20G often gets maligned for being Mooney’s turtle...  it is much nicer and higher performing than the competition...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

Right?!  So I trained in 172’s and Cubs, but never really got to fly much else. Took a ride in a M20C and was blown away. It’s awesome, shockingly comfortable and the speed! Loved it! This G, while might be a little slower seems awesome. Just worried about high DA takeoffs. Durango is plenty long (wanna say 6000 feet of runway) how would this do out of a 7000 foot msl airport? Can I at least count on 500 fpm?  
 

It’s funny about avionics- I fly an A320 and couldn’t care less to look at glass. I just want an iPad and good radios. I learned at an airport with an off the field ndb in the northeast and MISS doing arcs what not! 

Edited by Mromano
Link to comment
Share on other sites

See if you can find a POH in the download section...

The performance data may give some hints to your questions...

if nothing else... there is an M20C POH close to the latest available...

The C and the G share the same 180hp engine...  the G is a couple hundred pounds heavier...


What do you have for runways?   How familiar are you with DA calculations?

At 7k’ MSL... in the summer... performance calculations are important for all Mooneys (all piston powered GA aircraft as well)...

Once getting thousands of feet above sea level... the smaller hp engines have their short comings...

Just be knowledgable about what you are doing... proper POHs are available from the Mooney factory... (last time I checked...)

 

The way people handle this situation... avoid the heat of the day... leave early in the morning when the temps are more manageable...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

G owner here.  That's a nice looking plane, and came off the production line within a month or so of mine.  My O-360-A1D has been bulletproof, and I recently had it rebuilt at about 2,500 hrs not because it was showing signs of being tired but because I just felt it was time (frequent IFR/IMC, some at night, played a major role in the decision).  With a few speed mods mine gets around 150kts down low, about 145 at 11k.  The one for sale also appears to have some speed mods.  The panel layout is "modern", although the avionics/radios appear dated.  You've indicated that you're fine with that.  My only "high country" experience in mine was a trip to Albuquerque's Double Eagle airport and with three 6' adults and weekend baggage it seemed to handle the 6,000msl takeoff roll just fine.  ATC did vector us well west in a climb before turning us east to cross the Sandia Mountains, but that's probably SOP and I don't remember the climb rate being anemic.  I've also flown a Mooney Missile (300hp) into Angel Fire, NM and I wouldn't hesitate to take the G there, respecting density altitude and related considerations.  I've clowned around and climbed solo to 17,500 before and it was still willing to climb.

I'm seeing good paint, good panel layout, and good interior.  Once you master the Johnson bar you'll love the ease, speed, and simplicity of the gear system and hydraulic flaps.  The J-bar is so reliable, it's the only certified gear system that doesn't have a backup extension system.  Maintenance (of mine) is as cheap as you'll find for any retract.  If this plane suits your mission, I'd say inspect the logs and schedule a PPI.  Check into Savvy Aviation (savvyaviation.com); I'm thinking they offer to inspect the logbooks for you for free.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing wrong with a G, but I doubt the extra length is gonna help your dogs it’s mostly in legroom for the backseat.  If I was a dog in the back, I’d be curled up on the seat without needing any legroom at all!  I guess what I’m saying is that you might be able to open up your search to Cs and Es too.  There aren’t very many Gs.

As far as the DA, all the vintage 180/200 hp models are going to be similar in that regard.  You will have to tread carefully.  They will definitely climb higher when very light but start to wallow as load increases.  12,500 at max gross isn’t really comfortable, but it’s doable with reasonable weather (no downdrafts).  
 

My quick direct Foreflight plan for your route says 2:12 and 27 gallons (F model, rich of peak, with current winds).  So say minimum fuel load is 40 gallons with a nice reserve and maybe not direct.  If you weigh 200, wife is 125, dogs are 45, baggage is 75, that’s a total of 685.  I’d want to take off 100-200lbs or more below my max gross at those DAs.  Even if it’s “only” 7000’.  That’s just a guess from my flying in the last few years from our home in Washington.  At least until you really see how it will perform.  So you need an airplane with about 900lbs or more of useful. A G should be right about there or better.

No hard and fast data for you and the old POHs are light on the data too, but that’s my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mromano said:

Yes that’s exactly the airplane I was looking at recently. Contacted the broker went to voicemail- figured since the market is tight maybe someone had already looked at that airplane.

I haven't looked at this airplane to purchase it but I do know it. That's Dale's airplane. He's a good guy. He is an IA at Southwest based at PHX. He may be retired by now. This was basically a barn find that he personally rebuilt from the ground up. He kept it at CHD for many years but it is sitting on the ramp near the restaurant at RYN right now. I know his parents lived in Tucson. I don't think this airplane has flown much, or at all, in a couple of years now. I'm happy to go look at it for you.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

The price listed in the OP above... has been reduced 9amu on the website... to 45... Moving swiftly is important in the current market... but, don’t take any short cuts...

Moving quickly may not be necessary in this case. That airplane has been on the market for a couple of years. I doubt there's anything wrong with it other than it hasn't flown and that he had it WAY overpriced originally. It looks like it is at a fair asking price now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mromano said:

Anyways, the main mission is KSDL to KDRO (Scottsdale to Durango).

I doubt that you'll end up keeping it at SDL. $$$$$$$$

Look at Falcon Field, Chandler and Deer Valley. Possibly even Pegasus.

Edited by KLRDMD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

keep in mind, the M20G often gets maligned for being Mooney’s turtle...  it is much nicer and higher performing than the competition...

I transitioned a guy into a "G" model last year. It performed noticeably better than I was expecting. They are nice airplanes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nokomis449 said:

G owner here.  That's a nice looking plane, and came off the production line within a month or so of mine.  My O-360-A1D has been bulletproof, and I recently had it rebuilt at about 2,500 hrs not because it was showing signs of being tired but because I just felt it was time (frequent IFR/IMC, some at night, played a major role in the decision).  With a few speed mods mine gets around 150kts down low, about 145 at 11k.  The one for sale also appears to have some speed mods.  The panel layout is "modern", although the avionics/radios appear dated.  You've indicated that you're fine with that.  My only "high country" experience in mine was a trip to Albuquerque's Double Eagle airport and with three 6' adults and weekend baggage it seemed to handle the 6,000msl takeoff roll just fine.  ATC did vector us well west in a climb before turning us east to cross the Sandia Mountains, but that's probably SOP and I don't remember the climb rate being anemic.  I've also flown a Mooney Missile (300hp) into Angel Fire, NM and I wouldn't hesitate to take the G there, respecting density altitude and related considerations.  I've clowned around and climbed solo to 17,500 before and it was still willing to climb.

I'm seeing good paint, good panel layout, and good interior.  Once you master the Johnson bar you'll love the ease, speed, and simplicity of the gear system and hydraulic flaps.  The J-bar is so reliable, it's the only certified gear system that doesn't have a backup extension system.  Maintenance (of mine) is as cheap as you'll find for any retract.  If this plane suits your mission, I'd say inspect the logs and schedule a PPI.  Check into Savvy Aviation (savvyaviation.com); I'm thinking they offer to inspect the logbooks for you for free.

Awesome! I’m excited to check it out. I think it would suit us pretty well. I mean 145kts is pretty quick, I could be happy with that. Plus I love how simple mooneys are. I think they are just sorta the sweet spot (truth be told I also like the cardinal- but cabin and what not) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Nothing wrong with a G, but I doubt the extra length is gonna help your dogs it’s mostly in legroom for the backseat.  If I was a dog in the back, I’d be curled up on the seat without needing any legroom at all!  I guess what I’m saying is that you might be able to open up your search to Cs and Es too.  There aren’t very many Gs.

As far as the DA, all the vintage 180/200 hp models are going to be similar in that regard.  You will have to tread carefully.  They will definitely climb higher when very light but start to wallow as load increases.  12,500 at max gross isn’t really comfortable, but it’s doable with reasonable weather (no downdrafts).  
 

My quick direct Foreflight plan for your route says 2:12 and 27 gallons (F model, rich of peak, with current winds).  So say minimum fuel load is 40 gallons with a nice reserve and maybe not direct.  If you weigh 200, wife is 125, dogs are 45, baggage is 75, that’s a total of 685.  I’d want to take off 100-200lbs or more below my max gross at those DAs.  Even if it’s “only” 7000’.  That’s just a guess from my flying in the last few years from our home in Washington.  At least until you really see how it will perform.  So you need an airplane with about 900lbs or more of useful. A G should be right about there or better.

No hard and fast data for you and the old POHs are light on the data too, but that’s my 2 cents.

Totally, I’m sorta joking about the dogs. We are childless for now but thatll change in the future. I would like something that we could grow into a little and maybe hang onto for awhile. And it seems from a cost/performance standpoint it just sorta make sense. Wife doesn’t love to fly so I figured maybe stick her in the back seat where she can lounge would be good. Thanks for the numbers. It’s tight but I think we’d just leave early/late. Thanks for running the numbers! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Nokomis449 said:

Ha, I searched for KRYN on Google Maps (because @KLRDMD says that's where it lives) and sure enough, this is what shows up:

The last time I saw it it was the airplane closest to Richie's cafe.

Screen Shot 2021-02-20 at 10.41.02 PM.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to live in New Mexico and flew into Durango several times with no problem in my Cherokee 180. I would imagine a G model would be even more comfortable with folding legs. Also flew into Leadville. Once I moved up to a J model, high altitude performance was slightly better, though longer ground roll. Have to respect winds, density altitude,  weight, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fun fact for MRO...

There is lots of experience being shared about buying a plane...

All from first hand experience...

All from private owners... not pro buyers doing this for a living... (because that may not be you)

Ken has the most plane buying/selling experience of any on MS...   and has incredible GA flight experience... including CFI... and has a non-aviation day job too...   :)

So read those posts twice...

If you like speed and efficiency... go Mooney!

If you have aged, and mobility is not coming back... go cardinal....

 

Mooney, even it’s turtle is faster than the other planes....

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, carusoam said:

See if you can grab a good pic and post it here...

There is a good chance that either the owner or somebody that knows the owner is here...

Expect that everyone has a few seconds to join a thread... look, and then move on...

They have Mooneys... they don’t stay in any one place for any too long... :)

If you make them got to another site, and have to guess which plane it is....   you will be looking for planes for a really long time...

Best regards,

-a-

How about that..?

Not only does somebody know the plane...

That somebody is Ken!

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.