Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I have used up all my knowledge trying to find the part numbers for the fuel quantity gauges in my 64 M20D. 

Maybe its the weather or the line up of the stars but I just can't find them (both the same I presume)

I'm usually pretty good at this stuff but this one has me lost in space (even MooneySpace and Goog search) 

I want to get overhaul/exchange units for next weeks annual (mine have developed a "stickyness" in the needles) and I don't want to have to wait for the old ones to come out and then have to overnight everything to get them overhauled.

I found the cluster gauge unit number but not the individual gauge P/N.

Anyone got any ideas? 

They are the 156 lb gauges (26 gallon tanks). 

Standing by to repel boarders!   :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

The original manufacturer is Garwin Carruth, who sold this branch of digital instrumentation in the 80s and still exists under the name Sigma tek. The garwin" gauge cluster " is no longer manufactured nowadays but the plug-in indicators in this cluster are still available. These are the cluster gauges reference 169 L of which here is the link. For volume gauges, they are adjustable according to the resistance of the sensors and the graduations are either interchangeable with your model or to be specified in your order of new gauges.

http://www.sigmatek.com/cluster_gauges.html

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a supplier who has overhauled units but needs the original p/n to check stock for me 

A p/n I can't find until I get the cluster out, which I don't want to wait that long.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully this'll help as it sounds like we have the same cluster.  As-removed from my 1968 G at last annual, replaced with an EDM900.  EDM 900 pic included to show that it's a near-perfect fit where the original cluster goes.  All gauges were working when removed and I plan on listing the whole set for sale along with the working as-removed fuel pressure/manifold pressure gauge.  Engine is a Lycoming O-360-A1D, 26 gal tanks.  The individual fuel gauges have different part numbers and different electrical connections as one is male, one is female (see pics).

If you want to verify part numbers, the individual gauges can be easily removed from the front by unscrewing the single screw holding it until the screw is loose, then pull on the screw itself to slide out the instrument.

The left fuel gauge shows a stamped date of Mar 6 1968, with an additional stamped date of Oct 11 2002 which I assume is a rebuilt/refurbished? date.  The right fuel gauge has a handwritten sticker on it covering the original stamps and I know not what it means.

Guage Front.jpg

Guage Back.jpg

Guage Bottom.jpg

Guage Top.jpg

Data Closeup.jpg

EDM 900.jpg

Gauge Dates.jpg

Fuel Gauges Part nbrs.jpg

Fuel Gauges rear.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that FAA hasn’t made certification for modern engine gauges a simple process is one of the most frustrating things.

Lose attitude indication- might die. Lose airspeed indication, might die. Auto pilot malfunction/trim, might die. 
 

Lose RPM reading, shrug shoulders and fix as soon as practical. Lose fuel level, same. Lose MP, same. Lose oil pressure, cautiously land. 
 

WTF?

 

EDM 830- not certified. Insight products, etc etc. Tell me those aren’t as good as the trash still existing in the retro fleet.   I’ll wait.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, 201Steve said:

EDM 830- not certified. Insight products, etc etc. Tell me those aren’t as good as the trash still existing in the retro fleet.   I’ll wait.

 

No they aren't as good  -    THEY ARE WAY BETTER!!!!!!!   

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, MB65E said:

The Early insight/GEM line was a little silly. 
I really like my G2 I installed. Kinda a no brainer for the money. 
-Matt

I have a G2 as well. Great product.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I don't have the same gauges shown above. I have the early model that has all the gauges in one block and not individually separable with the 1 screw each so I'll have to send the entire engine instrument block out to fix the fuel level gauges.

It does look like they do have a trim screw for setting and maybe AP of LH will have the info I need to trim them in place when they get back. .

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear that.  Is the connection on the back the same as mine (pic above)?  If the overhaul/repair price is very much I'd be willing to ship these to you for a test fit and tryout, and if you like them I'll sell them at a very reasonable price.  I'd rather them be installed somewhere being useful, rather than collecting dust on a shelf.  All gauges were working when removed, with the two fuel gauges being somewhat low on their readings.  The new EDM900 shows the same fuel gauge wonkiness, so I assume it's the fuel senders.

And I highly recommend the EDM900 to replace the whole instrument sixpak.  It's a near-perfect fit (pic above), and I really appreciate the fact that I can download and store data from every flight and even (for free!) upload the data to Savvy's website and view my data in the same charts Savvy uses for their data analysis.  I had it installed with the engine overhaul and don't have a breakdown of the install labor, but I'd guess the hardware was around $2k (with fuel sender, carb temp, and 2 tanks) and install was probably another $2-3k.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Although the 900 is nice it retails for around  $4800 not counting install labor.

PO of my airplane put in an EI oil temp/oil press gauge and blocked the six pac ones and my ammeter is a load meter (+ amps only) instead of a true amp gauge like yours so your six pac would need work arounds for my install but thanks for the offer. That was nice of you. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, cliffy said:

Although the 900 is nice it retails for around  $4800 not counting install labor.

PO of my airplane put in an EI oil temp/oil press gauge and blocked the six pac ones and my ammeter is a load meter (+ amps only) instead of a true amp gauge like yours so your six pac would need work arounds for my install but thanks for the offer. That was nice of you. 

Thread hijack, but have you looked into the EI CGR-30 monitor?  I think it's a little cheaper, and it MIGHT be able to use the prior EI sensors to save some additional money and install cost.  I'm guessing it cannot display fuel tank data, though...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cliffy- I think I probably have the exact same issue as you, I like the 6 small gauges but my fuel is getting “wonky”.

I will be replacing mine with the small Mitchell modular gauges, most of which are PMA’ed for other airplanes.  @Sabremech has a 337 Field approval for this modification that I bet he’d share with you.  

I’m planning to replace my fuel level sending units with the brand new Mitchell ones.

I got quotes of $400-600 to overhaul the old style engine gauges, and $150 each to overhaul the sending units from Airparts of Lock Haven.  All-in cost of brand new Mitchell gauges and all sending units is about $1100.  Mitchell will mark the red/yellow/green arcs on the gauges.

@hammdo now owns Sabremech’s airplane and can probably say how well those engine gauges are working after 8 years.

Also, @RLCarter installed the same Mitchell modular gauges in his airplane (I’m not sure what basis for approval he used) and wrote about it in the following posts:

 

3DCE72B9-1DA4-4D9C-AAAE-27B16FB0A0DA.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/22/2021 at 11:42 PM, cliffy said:

Unfortunately I don't have the same gauges shown above. I have the early model that has all the gauges in one block and not individually separable with the 1 screw each so I'll have to send the entire engine instrument block out to fix the fuel level gauges.

It does look like they do have a trim screw for setting and maybe AP of LH will have the info I need to trim them in place when they get back. .

I think yours is the same as the one I took out of my 65D. It's at home in a box, I can take a look and see if I can get any numbers off it when I get home. The fuel gauges on mine were sticky too, I had to tap them every now and then to get them to work. If you want I could send it to you and you could either send it out for overhaul or stick it in your plane while yours is out to avoid down time.

20200917_180719.thumb.jpg.0b237da817994c0526dd2becdaa18c6e.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Cliffy- I think I probably have the exact same issue as you, I like the 6 small gauges but my fuel is getting “wonky”.

I will be replacing mine with the small Mitchell modular gauges, most of which are PMA’ed for other airplanes.  @Sabremech has a 337 Field approval for this modification that I bet he’d share with you.  

I’m planning to replace my fuel level sending units with the brand new Mitchell ones.

I got quotes of $400-600 to overhaul the old style engine gauges, and $150 each to overhaul the sending units from Airparts of Lock Haven.  All-in cost of brand new Mitchell gauges and all sending units is about $1100.  Mitchell will mark the red/yellow/green arcs on the gauges.

@hammdo now owns Sabremech’s airplane and can probably say how well those engine gauges are working after 8 years.

Also, @RLCarter installed the same Mitchell modular gauges in his airplane (I’m not sure what basis for approval he used) and wrote about it in the following posts:

 

3DCE72B9-1DA4-4D9C-AAAE-27B16FB0A0DA.jpeg

Mitchell's are working great not one issue so far... 

-Don 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Mitchells seem good but they don't fit my 6 pac. 

Skates and I have the same "box" of six NOT individually separable.

I'm going to assume that the PO of my airplane put the EI Op/OT gauge in because he had problems with those two on the cluster and blocked them off. 

I've changed out  my transmitters so they are fairly new and now my problem is sticky gauges.

I'll check with Keystone tomorrow to see what they can do. Not in a real big hurry so back up gauges won't be needed but the offers were real nice to hear  Thanks!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopefully this'll help as it sounds like we have the same cluster.  As-removed from my 1968 G at last annual, replaced with an EDM900.  EDM 900 pic included to show that it's a near-perfect fit where the original cluster goes.  All gauges were working when removed and I plan on listing the whole set for sale along with the working as-removed fuel pressure/manifold pressure gauge.  Engine is a Lycoming O-360-A1D, 26 gal tanks.  The individual fuel gauges have different part numbers and different electrical connections as one is male, one is female (see pics).
If you want to verify part numbers, the individual gauges can be easily removed from the front by unscrewing the single screw holding it until the screw is loose, then pull on the screw itself to slide out the instrument.
The left fuel gauge shows a stamped date of Mar 6 1968, with an additional stamped date of Oct 11 2002 which I assume is a rebuilt/refurbished? date.  The right fuel gauge has a handwritten sticker on it covering the original stamps and I know not what it means.
1712570305_GuageFront.thumb.jpg.3ae482fc06103107d384ce61b911480d.jpg
1827080808_GuageBack.thumb.jpg.fb14c2b411a2f073d631239253458133.jpg
989675115_GuageBottom.thumb.jpg.32b22952ccfd7162f3ffc90f160512a9.jpg
358184663_GuageTop.thumb.jpg.c82e0d9901d8fa0ceae3a852700c40da.jpg
320731275_DataCloseup.thumb.jpg.c7f8c65736e8477d5f834c7054149395.jpg
658884772_EDM900.thumb.jpg.f5b8347e097f762fdce54180ebf6bbac.jpg
1653034781_GaugeDates.thumb.jpg.9d5a065a6e3ae15f29301de005c74225.jpg
632767185_FuelGaugesPartnbrs.thumb.jpg.4352c1835479a79fa9ea0fe343e7447c.jpg
1312669824_FuelGaugesrear.thumb.jpg.93cc3dca0500883eff45abb3ebd18610.jpg

Well....I may be interested in your cluster. My two fuel gages were not working great so I sent them to Air Parts of Lock Haven for overhaul. I was quoted $250 each and paid an extra $75 for expedite. Final bill was $1012 after they replaced the bezels at $150 each and I paid another $62 for overnight shipping to Florida. I was a bit annoyed that I was not informed about the the parts they replaced but water under the bridge and I just wanted ny fuel gauges back. They were shipped overnight last Thursday via FEDEX and no one knows where they are. FEDEX is looking for them and I have a case number opened but so far no luck. After paying $1000 for these damn gauges I may not ever see them again. I’m not even sure what recourse I have at the moment with Air Parts of Lock Haven or FEDEX. Regardless looks like I’m out two fuel gauges and my 67C is grounded until I come up with replacements.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Hector said:


Well....I may be interested in your cluster.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like everything from engines to instruments are being lost in shipping these days.  I'll send you a PM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.