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Mask wearing IS political.

any attempt at saying otherwise is disingenuous at best.

we only got the pathetic “stop the politics” drivel when someone was brave enough to not follow the leftist party line.

and Carusoam lose the “I feel sorry BS” stop lying and say the truth.

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Everyone calm down please.     To the OPs original point the only reason I put this on MS is 1) I actually care about the health and well being of some of the members here and 2) this impacts s

I refuse to live in fear of the rona.

For 2021 Adapted from CS Lewis who was living in the cold war where politicians could nuke everyone with the push of a button. Switched bombs and Microbes to fit today. Thanks to a friend for sharing

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On 2/11/2021 at 7:55 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

I just need someone to explain to my why the covid only got worse since we mandated everyone wear masks.  No science is addressing this. 

And then, why stop at 2? 3 is demonstrably better (I read the study) so why not 4 or 5?

Note the date on this article.  https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-can-fabric-cloth-masks-stem-coronavirus-spread

Here was my favorite line, (emphasis added):

In one study, a mask that used 16 layers of handkerchief fabric was able to filter out 63 percent of 300-nanometer-sized particles. (The coronavirus is between 50 to 200 nanometers in diameter.) But that mask was harder to breathe with compared with thick, tight-fitting N95 respirators, often used in hospitals, that can block minuscule particles. Wearing a cloth mask with that many layers would be uncomfortable and may “cause some to pass out,” the researchers wrote in the letter.

To me, that shows what a joke mask mandates are, since they do not specify the required effectiveness of the mask.  Instead, the mandates treat bandanas and gaiters as sufficient, when they block less than 5% of the virus, which is less than the average variation between viral loads produced and expelled.  The mandates are only 'for show' and do little good, but possibly harm.

To those who then say, "Masks cannot hurt", read this:  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm

Again, note the date.

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Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

I agree completely!

But @bradpstarted it, he started a thread that had nothing to do with aviation in the least.

I would be happy if the moderator just deleted non-aviation threads, they just drive us apart!

I guess I could choose to abstain, but some statements just can't be left alone.

Dude, I hear ya! I'm an engineer, wife works with surgeons and I have highschool classmates who are currently developing vaccines as senior and lead scientists. I have access to info and know scientific reasoning better than most social media "contributors". Yet for my mental health, I decided to not engage. In the end, nobody changes their opinion. 

Just let's not engage. I don't want to see this great forum where I've learned a lot and have received GREAT support from fellow mooniacs turn into another Facebook.

 

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Give me a controversy, tell me which side I am on and I can make a case. Google makes it easy, whatever side you want to argue. In the science community there is a study that proves anything you want, because the dollars come from people with agendas. When. lay people say, "Follow the science", they mean "their science". It has been that way for a long, long time. Just ask Galileo.

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

But @bradpstarted it, he started a thread that had nothing to do with aviation in the least.

"He started it" ceased to be a viable excuse not long after starting school . . . .

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2 hours ago, FJC said:

I do wear highly rated masks but recognize that not everyone can afford a $4 dollar mask or given the money, they'd have to use it on something else for whatever reason (no judgement: could be making sure they little ones dont go without). I think we need to build and support community and help/encourage EVERYONE to get through this pandemic. We do not have perfect information and data but we do know how to stop or greatly slow virus spread. It is not a guilt thing and it certainly isnt crap and sorry if this is offensive to you...its simply asking for people to do the right thing especially those that can and because the science seems to support it. We know seatbelts save lives and so do masks.

I’ll end my non aviation related posts with this last one. I have to agree to disagree. Happy Mooney flying. 

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15 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I didn't start the political shit show but I'm not gonna sit here and listen to some RWNJ rant. 

Many people feel the same about Left Wing Nut Jobs whose philosphy is "the ends justify the means" or who decide on whether an action or speech is ethical based on who did it rather than on what was done.

I'd hang up and go flying if I could, but my inability is not related to politics or pandemics but on driving away from home during unflyable weather. 

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55 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I wasnt referring to you, but rather RJ BRown, who thinks he knows more about vaccines than actual doctors. The Godwin's law-breaking shrill RWNJ reference to nazis and the "big lie" , and the supposed vast global consiracy involving vaccines and news media, is, well, whatev.   Some of us choose to live in the present and in reality, and some dont.  In reality he's just some sad angry old retired white dude and wants to lash out against the system.  A privileged millionaire with an airplane he wants to act like he's a victim. It's precisely the kind of guy to grab an AR-15 and go shoot up an abortion clinic. No I do not have respect for people like that. Neither should you. Youre smart enough to see through all that.

I didn't start the political shit show but I'm not gonna sit here and listen to some RWNJ rant. 

Hi Byron,   I had a fair amount of respect for you but now after your rant, not so much. 

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I'm not sure what kind of "rant" it is except for "listen to experts when you get your medical advice" and "don't post RWNJ conspiracy stuff on a mooney site. Save that stuff for Parler." 

i think most people would agree with that.

I actually know the OP, Bradp, and he is a Doctor. The kind working double shifts for the past year to keep people from dying. 

Edited by jetdriven
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19 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I'm not sure what kind of "rant" it is except for "listen to experts when you get your medical advice" and "don't post RWNJ conspiracy stuff on a mooney site. Save that stuff for Parler." 

i think most people would agree with that.

I actually know the OP, Bradp, and he is a Doctor. The kind working double shifts for the past year to keep people from dying. 

Whatever! Your idea of an expert might not be someone else’s and you automatically dismiss them because you’re always right.

Have a great day. 

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Here's my two cents:

1.  I choose to take my medical advice by people who have medical expertise.  So far, every medical expert with meaningful credentials and knowledge of this pandemic has said masks work.  For me, its not political, its that some people think the earth is round and some people think the earth is flat, and I just don't make counter-science decisions because someone tells me I have to do it to take some sort of political stand.  Wearing a red MAGA hat is political.  Spreading a deadly virus contrary to science is not a political expression, its just stupidity.

2.  Back to aviation, this whole thread is sad to me.  I read today that masks will be optional at Oshkosh absent any prevailing government order to the contrary, and you know, Wisconsin.  So this convinces me that unless there's a real change in attitudes, or the virus rates decline dramatically, we will be unlikely to go because I do not choose to risk my health and that of my family and colleagues and husbands' colleagues because its clear from this thread that some people attending will refuse to take reasonable precautions.  Oshkosh is something we look forward to every year and we were sad to miss it this year, and I had been hopeful since its a mostly outdoor event and capacity could be managed or limited, it could be done safely, but this thread is making me doubtful that the pilot community is ready to take the necessary steps to get us there.

3.  For the person who said he's aircrew and doesn't wear his mask in the cockpit, please ask your FO or Captain - honestly - how he or she feels about your choice.  My husband is also aircrew and I would prefer him protected (and protecting me) from exposures in the cockpit especially on a short trip (such as one or two leg, I get on a longer trip exposure might be inevitable), we have lots of older relatives that we come into contact with and just because you think this isn't important to you doesn't mean it isn't important to us.  Even if you don't believe it helps, consider it a courtesy or a kindness.

3.  Someone said they only know people who took precautions got covid.  A story for you.  I recently went on a "club" ski trip.  My "pod" tried to be very careful, we wore masks, did not go to any indoor dining or indoor bars, we avoided riding lifts with those outside our pod, we had comfortable distanced outdoor socialization and apres ski with others, and enjoyed an overall great ski trip (we also visited Yellowstone, snowshoes, and snow mobile).  Our pod tested for covid before and after the trip (negative).  We wore our masks on the airlines and in the terminal going to and from and dutifully masked up anytime we went indoors or were in close proximity with others outdoors.  All this said, we knew taking this trip posed some risk, but we thought we could do what we pilots do every day - make science and evidence-based decisions to minimize this risk to ourselves and each other.  Many of the other participants on the trip did not follow these precautions - they socialized in each others condos, went to big group indoor dining events, did not get tested, wore masks for the shortest duration required and under duress of the local ski mountain rules.  There were several times where the group tried to convince our pod to be less careful and that we should join them in some of their risky activities because covid was no big deal. ... in any event, the outcome was there was a massive covid outbreak amongst the other people who attended the trip -- somewhere near 25% -- of course none of them got tested in the days after attending trip like we had, so in addition to them getting covid, there were reports of several spouses (that did not come on the trip) who also got covid, and I suspect some of the people they work with probably got it too.  So far there haven't been any deaths (one hospitalization), and I hope it stays that way.

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RJ,

If you have a point, you made it...

Taking shots at the other patrons in the establishment gets tiring...

I get it... you don’t like anyone today...

Take a break... visit a different thread...

 

The OP has significant technical background... he gave technical advice about the latest methods of using masks...  data I appreciate, because I live in an area where the virus is readily transmitted...

No, he didn’t mention you need or don’t need to wear one...

If you decide not to wear a mask...

I’m good with that too...

Since the ubiquitousscientists have ruled 6’ away is good enough...  2knm should be plenty...

Where were you going with this?

You might want to start your own thread...  or web site...

Or find a web site you can comfortably discuss such a great non-aviation topic... let us know where you go...  it might be interesting for a few people here...

Unfortunately, it isn’t the type of topic that gets space on MS...

MS is on the internet, it isn’t the usual internet where you can be rude, crude, and socially unacceptable...

PP thoughts only, not a cognitive therapist...

Lets talk aviation...

Best regards,

-a-

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19 minutes ago, carusoam said:

RJ,

If you have a point, you made it...

Taking shots at the other patrons in the establishment gets tiring...

Or find a web site you can comfortably discuss such a great non-aviation topic... let us know where you go...  it might be interesting for a few people here...

Unfortunately, it isn’t the type of topic that gets space on MS...

MS is on the internet, it isn’t the usual internet where you can be rude, crude, and socially unacceptable...

Just curious why no comments regarding jetdriven's rather rude, crude, and socially unacceptable post?  Or, was his diatribe ok merely because "he didn't start it."

Looking for a little less bias, and more equity.

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Just now, MikeOH said:

Just curious why no comments regarding jetdriven's rather rude, crude, and socially unacceptable post?  Or, was his diatribe ok merely because "he didn't start it."

Looking for a little less bias, and more equity.

Mike,

You must know me better by now...

Do I look like the thought leader around here?

Am i the thread police?

Do I have a guide of what is proper or improper...?

Is there a reason, you didn’t take it upon yourself to tell Byron what you are telling me... he said it, take it up with him... 

 

I only comment about the things I recognize, that other people have shown a dis-interest in...

 

I sometimes get messages from new members asking why I allow this type of conversation to go on...

They hang out for a day or two... get dis-interested and leave...

Usually, the wacky conversations are late on Fridays and Saturdays...

This one got derailed early today... 

 

When you meet a Mooney pilot at an airport... do you ask them if they are an MSer?

Or are you afraid to mention you are an MSer...

You might not care to talk to people just because they fly a Mooney... I find it interesting...

 

Its possible, I play favorites... I have met hundreds of Mooney pilots over the years...  at fly-ins, Mooney summit, KOSH, airports.... everywhere and anywhere...

I have met the OP, his wife, and his first born...

I also have met Becca and Byron...  Byron gave me hand breaking in a 310hp IO550...

I enjoy the loose humor, See Ken’s pic above...

Most non-aviation stuff disappears within days...

Some has a tendency to last too long, and gain attention...

 

Generally, if it’s not aviation... and it gets heated... it isn’t helpful for the MS community...

I’d prefer it go elsewhere...

I have plenty of time to discuss this openly, or in private...

Best in private...

I’m pretty sure nobody is interested in the political aspect or the follow-on... for pages....

Lets build the community...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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25 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Mike,

You must know me better by now...

Do I look like the thought leader around here?

Am i the thread police?

Do I have a guide of what is proper or improper...?

Is there a reason, you didn’t take it upon yourself to tell Byron what you are telling me... he said it, take it up with him... 

 

I only comment about the things I recognize, that other people have shown a dis-interest in...

 

I sometimes get messages from new members asking why I allow this type of conversation to go on...

They hang out for a day or two... get dis-interested and leave...

Usually, the wacky conversations are late on Fridays and Saturdays...

This one got derailed early today... 

 

When you meet a Mooney pilot at an airport... do you ask them if they are an MSer?

Or are you afraid to mention you are an MSer...

You might not care to talk to people just because they fly a Mooney... I find it interesting...

 

Its possible, I play favorites... I have met hundreds of Mooney pilots over the years...  at fly-ins, Mooney summit, KOSH, airports.... everywhere and anywhere...

I have met the OP, his wife, and his first born...

I also have met Becca and Byron...  Byron gave me hand breaking in a 310hp IO550...

I enjoy the loose humor, See Ken’s pic above...

Most non-aviation stuff disappears within days...

Some has a tendency to last too long, and gain attention...

 

Generally, if it’s not aviation... and it gets heated... it isn’t helpful for the MS community...

I’d prefer it go elsewhere...

I have plenty of time to discuss this openly, or in private...

Best in private...

I’m pretty sure nobody is interested in the political aspect or the follow-on... for pages....

Lets build the community...

Best regards,

-a-

 

I've met MSers ask over the country.  Many with different political views or music likes, or whatever.  And I don't care.  I don't care what peoples politics are, I don't ask.  If you're good people, you're good people.  

That stops being true when you accuse a of being a Nazi and a mass murderer in waiting, just because you don't like his views. 

If you can't recognize that, and call it out instead of this empty platitude filled post, you're not any better.

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2 hours ago, RJBrown said:

It, the mandate, is either real or its not.  If a dirty bandanna and this glitter grill meet the mandate, then it just isn’t real.

If it isn’t real then what is it.
Why the forced compliance with a KNOWN ineffective mandate.

 

image.jpg

It appears you have more time to read MS than read mask mandates.   Virginia, for instance, has significant guidance on what type of mask to wear and how to wear it -- linking back to the CDC guidance to the same --- on their mandate page page, but somehow I doubt you care but clearly the mask you posted would not be compliant:

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/cloth-face-covers/#mask-tips

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Here we go again.  Why are we doing this?  I come for our collective aviation knowledge.  We have tried and failed politics many many times.  It tears us up and no one changes minds.  Other than getting angry at each other. This kind of forum is just not conducive.

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On 2/12/2021 at 2:40 PM, EricJ said:

Many of them didn't.    It'd be kinda like saying "people survived the great plague, so sanitation isn't important", or "people survive cholera and dysentery, so clean water isn't important."

The desire is to cut down on unneccessary deaths.

If that was the goal then we would have gone with antivirals upon diagnosis.   waiting around 9 months for a vaccine has killed many people along with sending sick people back to senior homes.  The rest of the world uses antivirals.  Their death rates are much lower.

 

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I apologize for my earlier comments. None of us know the whole truth about anything. Surprised this has not been shut down. I respect everyone's opinion. Let's get back to more important things, lift coefficients, flaps or no, lean of peak, and 201er'a latest exploits! 

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4 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Well pretty pathetic.

Typical internet interaction.

A purely political post comes up.

Of course no one objects enough to be noticed because the bias confirmation is feeling real good.

Again lots of left wingers feel right at home interacting, the mutual admiration society working hard.

Someone, and this time me, calls the BS and points out that the Emperor has no clothes. 
 

The bias confirmation is confronted and the circle jerk is interrupted.

what comes next? A reasoned argument no, never. 
 
Key the personal attacks.

Jet Driven you’re the worst. 
your mind is so twisted that I have to be “Shrill, angry, white dude, a privileged millionaire victim and a budding mass murderer” to have the Gaul to disagree with you.

You sound like one of drunken Nancy’s trolls.

Just look in the mirror buddy, you are what is wrong in America today. 

The mask mandate IS political. As mandated it is worthless medically. It is only for show.

see picture, this mask meets the mandate.

It, the mandate, is either real or its not.  If a dirty bandanna and this glitter grill meet the mandate, then it just isn’t real.

If it isn’t real then what is it.
Why the forced compliance with a KNOWN ineffective mandate.

 

image.jpg

I apologize for calling you a RWNJ and insinuating you would shoot up a clinic. People can read your posts and infer their own opinion from that. 

But here's the deal, the site is not the place for conspiracy theories, COVID denial, global warming denial, and inflammatory political posts.  You managed to check all the boxes in three posts on one page.  This is CERTAINLY it is not the place to state that Nazis are running the government. Take that stuff to Parler.  It's like you're cruising for a fight, even took a shot of Anthony who is like the nicest guy I've ever met.   It's the same old thing... Somebody posts  inflammatory material, other people respond, then it turns into a "muddy the water" and then " both sides do it"  big shit fight.   It doesnt belong here. There are plenty of venues for that.

The OP posted it because it related to commercial air travel and the minimal space for passengers.

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