201er Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Confused said: How can 200 hp make the Mooney go faster than the bonanza? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrosa Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I'm still shopping for a plane but this is what I gather from my Mooney research: Pro's - You will never squeeze more from a gallon of 100LL out of certified GA plane than a 4 banger Mooney. Despite the internet keyboard warriors, they are not that small inside. My flight school had me sit in their 150 and that is a small plane. The Mooney is shorter and the door is a little tighter to get into but by no means are they smaller than the average flight school Cessna or Piper Mooney have great support and parts availability. Con's- Not for the Ham Fisted Cessna Driver. You can keep an extra 10 knots over the numbers and expect to settle down anytime soon. Insurance Costs for low time pilots Maintenance costs compared to the Cessna's and Pipers will be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 some good news to go with that... Insurance cost difference... for low time pilots evaporates before the first year is over... To really lower the insurance rate, train more... get the IR... Surprisingly maintenance differences for an M20C and a fixed gear plane are not that big... Jack the plane up, apply grease, raise the gear, lower the gear, done... don’t forget to put the plane back on the ground... Hydraulic flaps are similar... they go decades without any extra time spent on them... change the fluid out before it turns to gum... Basic C and P planes are designed to be basic... they forgo speed and efficiency, but your cost of the annual is less... Putting retractable gear on a basic plane, makes it the fastest basic plane in the basic fleet... but it’s annual cost just went up to include the jacking and the gear test... Simplify things a bit... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Ross Statham said: But on the other hand, the interior of a Bonanza is wider Mooney cabin width - 43.5" Bonanza V-tail cabin width - 42" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 The Bonanza "feels roomier" because the cabin height is greater. It is the reason why builders went to 9' ceilings in new homes, while actually making the average room size smaller. Ditto for mini- SUV's over sedans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Mooney cabin width - 43.5" Bonanza V-tail cabin width - 42" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 16 hours ago, Confused said: Oops. Meant to ask...what is the useful loads spec for the Mooney? Which model? They are all different. There have been useful load increases over time to some models, and there have been three, maybe four different body lengths with related UL changes. Generally, the more recent the model the lower the UL, but that doesn't always hold true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, jlunseth said: Which model? They are all different. There have been useful load increases over time to some models, and there have been three, maybe four different body lengths with related UL changes. Generally, the more recent the model the lower the UL, but that doesn't always hold true. And all UL's are not equal. What you really want to know is Payload with enough fuel for the mission. And as the Mooneys are so fuel efficient, I often find that I can carry more stuff in my Mooney than a C182 with a higher UL. Because I don't have to carry nearly as much fuel to go the same distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Let’s see... The oldest Mooneys we have around here are 1958 M20As... The newest would be an M20V... There are plenty of differences between A and V... In the beginning... there was wood, a natural composite... Currently... there is man made composites... In the middle there were all aluminum Mooneys... The early Mooneys were Short Bodies... Then there were mid bodies... Now there are Long Bodies.... Adding skills to the Mooney fleet... you can get... a turbo an intercooler a manifold pressure controller airbag seat belts air conditioning built in conveniences like O2 Fantastic nav equipment like a G1000 with WAAS Autopilots that include several extra functions like Yaw control... Who needs that? V... Anti-ice systems.... Cockpit weather options... and XM weather, tunes, and traffic reports... ooops almost forgot... Mooneys are so fast... they also come with speed brakes... There is a Mooney for every budget... There are Mooneys that are great for First airplane ownership experiences... There are Mooneys that are great for Last plane ownership experiences, aka retirement planes... There are Mooneys that last a lifetime of service, aka forever planes.... There are Mooneys that make great partnership planes... Some people fly a Mooney to work... Some people fly a Mooney for work... Some people continue to work, to fly a Mooney... Some people get a Mooney to advance their flying careers... Some people’s Mooneys are passed to the younger generation like an heirloom... Some people are passionate about flying because their parents flew a Mooney... Some people are so passionate about their Mooney they post videos on YouTube all the time... Some people are so passionate about life, they use their Mooney to support their passions... Some people have very few hours of experience when they get their Mooney... Some pro pilots with thousands of hours get Mooneys... Any follow-up questions? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynimmo Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 37 minutes ago, carusoam said: Let’s see... The oldest Mooneys we have around here are 1958 M20As... The newest would be an M20V... There are plenty of differences between A and V... In the beginning... there was wood, a natural composite... Currently... there is man made composites... In the middle there were all aluminum Mooneys... The early Mooneys were Short Bodies... Then there were mid bodies... Now there are Long Bodies.... Adding skills to the Mooney fleet... you can get... a turbo an intercooler a manifold pressure controller airbag seat belts air conditioning built in conveniences like O2 Fantastic nav equipment like a G1000 with WAAS Autopilots that include several extra functions like Yaw control... Who needs that? V... Anti-ice systems.... Cockpit weather options... and XM weather, tunes, and traffic reports... ooops almost forgot... Mooneys are so fast... they also come with speed brakes... There is a Mooney for every budget... There are Mooneys that are great for First airplane ownership experiences... There are Mooneys that are great for Last plane ownership experiences, aka retirement planes... There are Mooneys that last a lifetime of service, aka forever planes.... There are Mooneys that make great partnership planes... Some people fly a Mooney to work... Some people fly a Mooney for work... Some people continue to work, to fly a Mooney... Some people get a Mooney to advance their flying careers... Some people’s Mooneys are passed to the younger generation like an heirloom... Some people are passionate about flying because their parents flew a Mooney... Some people are so passionate about their Mooney they post videos on YouTube all the time... Some people are so passionate about life, they use their Mooney to support their passions... Some people have very few hours of experience when they get their Mooney... Some pro pilots with thousands of hours get Mooneys... Any follow-up questions? Best regards, -a- One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish....Marvin K Mooney will you leave this room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9405V Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 I’m really surprised that no one has mentioned that Mooney’s have the tail on the correct way. We all know that’s why they are more efficient. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Plus there is no parasitic trim drag on a Mooney. we don’t use trim tabs, they slow you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icurnmedic Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 67F model, with full fuel @ 64 gallons, 647 lbs payload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibra Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 6 hours ago, RJBrown said: we don’t use trim tabs, they slow you down For perfectionists, you need to align the trim tab with control surfaces before leaving the aircraft which is a pain In a Mooney, I leave it full forward, it adds to the "tail effect" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishpilot Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 7:40 PM, carusoam said: No matter how high you are flying in a Mooney... Deploy the speed brakes... you will be on the ground in minutes... They are that efficient... Best regards, -a- I love my speedbrakes...especially when approach holds me high and gives a late descent! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBrown Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 17 hours ago, Ibra said: For perfectionists, you need to align the trim tab with control surfaces before leaving the aircraft which is a pain In a Mooney, I leave it full forward, it adds to the "tail effect" Mooney does not use a trim tab. The whole tail section changes attitude instead. As such the “trim tab” is Always perfectly aligned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) On 2/7/2021 at 7:25 AM, Yetti said: I can't physically fly Bonanzas or Piper products. Because of control interference with my legs. But fit really well in the Mooney. The other speed brakes are on the bottom of the wing. Have wheels and tires attached. Several ways to manage energy. Me too. I had a v tail but anytime I could ditch the knee board I did. It was difficult to keep out of the way in the Bo. The Mooney is designed for tall pilots and is just a better fit. Edited February 9, 2021 by RobertGary1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconMax Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 8:13 PM, larrynimmo said: The M20J with 200hp fuel injected Lycomming 4 cylinder IO360 will easily fly 160knot and if you work at it hard you can get over 165knot. Yet if you are satisfied at 130k you can get about 20mpg (statue miles) useful load is about 930#s. When people ask me if the plane can fly 4 people, my answer back is that you have a choice...you can either carry 4 people, or you can carry fuel for 2 or 3 @larrynimmo What year model J do you fly? I'm interested in how you are configured to achieve these numbers. I'm assuming you mean 165KTAS in level flight. Are you 100 degrees ROP? What altitude? Are you near gross weight or light? I would love to try and achieve 165KTAS in my plane in level flight. Also, if it's KTAS, how are you calculating it, by setting altitude and temp on your ASI? E6B? GPS? I fly at 10 degrees LOP for economy which normally puts me in the 145KTAS range but I would like to see how fast can possibly go sometime. I've never really tried yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 53 minutes ago, ReconMax said: I fly at 10 degrees LOP for economy which normally puts me in the 145KTAS range but I would like to see how fast can possibly go sometime. I've never really tried yet. Sounds about right. You’d have to burn another 3-5gph and run it hard to squeeze the remaining 10-20 knots out of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ReconMax said: @larrynimmo What year model J do you fly? I'm interested in how you are configured to achieve these numbers. I'm assuming you mean 165KTAS in level flight. Are you 100 degrees ROP? What altitude? Are you near gross weight or light? I would love to try and achieve 165KTAS in my plane in level flight. Also, if it's KTAS, how are you calculating it, by setting altitude and temp on your ASI? E6B? GPS? I fly at 10 degrees LOP for economy which normally puts me in the 145KTAS range but I would like to see how fast can possibly go sometime. I've never really tried yet. Similar here. I'm usually 145-150 kts at 100 ROP, usually cruising 7-11k ft. When there's not terrain in the way and I can go lower it'll do 160 kts in the right conditions if I throw fuel at it. Edited September 26, 2021 by EricJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 Some speed claims depend on quantum weirdness. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 3 hours ago, EricJ said: Similar here. I'm usually 145-150 kts at 100 ROP, usually cruising 7-11k ft. When there's not terrain in the way and I can go lower it'll do 160 kts in the right conditions if I throw fuel at it. Below about 8500' MSL, you'd go slower for a given power setting. If you want to go fast, just stay at 8500' MSL and yeet the throttle and prop forwards. That'll get you faster for less fuel than down low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 Just now, jaylw314 said: Below about 8500' MSL, you'd go slower for a given power setting. If you want to go fast, just stay at 8500' MSL and yeet the throttle and prop forwards. That'll get you faster for less fuel than down low. I always cruise at WOT/2500. Many times I've been cruising at 8-10k at 150 kts, and put the nose down to about 160 to descend to 5k or so after clearing terrain. When I level off it just doesn't slow down. It makes more power at lower altitudes, so this makes sense. On a few occassions cruising at 4-6k it's crept up to 155-160kts on its own, but it's not reliable enough to expect it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 1 minute ago, EricJ said: I always cruise at WOT/2500. Many times I've been cruising at 8-10k at 150 kts, and put the nose down to about 160 to descend to 5k or so after clearing terrain. When I level off it just doesn't slow down. It makes more power at lower altitudes, so this makes sense. On a few occassions cruising at 4-6k it's crept up to 155-160kts on its own, but it's not reliable enough to expect it. More MP at lower altitudes, sure, but also more fuel and more drag. At 8500' you can still get 75% power at WOT/2700 (according to the cruise schedule, anyways) and you're fighting less drag, so that's the max speed at 75% power (for the same fuel). Above 8500' you can't make 75% power. If you're willing to use 80% power, sure, the fastest speed is probably around 6000' MSL (extrapolating from the cruise charts), but it's not on the charts so it might make some people uncomfortable you're not supposed to lean below 75% so it might make Lycoming unhappy if you do granted, neither will result in the air police coming after you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_g Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 our J is good for about 150 kts and no more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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