mooneyflyfast Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) A buddy was doing practice Rnav approaches under VFR to say runway 09. The activerunway was say Rwy 18. He was instructed by the tower on completion of approach to fly runway heading. He flew the runway heading of runway 09. He got scolded and admonished that he was supposed to fly the heading of the active runway, not the runway he was flying the approach to. He was given a telephone number to call for further edification. Is this correct? Edited February 1, 2021 by mooneyflyfast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Wow, I would have done the same thing. Controller must have been having a bad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Curious how this turns out. I'd have flown the heading of the runway I was on and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the right answer. Controllers make mistakes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 If you’re flying a circling approach and go miss, I would expect to miss approach to be based of the runway the procedure is for.But if flying the 9 approach, runway heading should be 90°...this is the problem, he wasn’t IFR, so VFR rules apply. A bit confusing no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 What airport, day, and time? Could be worth a listen? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 If tower or approach had cleared me for a "practice RNAV 9, no separation services provided, maintain VFR, on the missed fly runway heading", I would fly the runway heading of runway 09. I wouldn't think twice about that decision until I heard back from the tower. File the get out of jail with the FAA, please definitely talk to the tower supervisor, and please report back here. We might learn something! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, 201er said: What airport, day, and time? Could be worth a listen? Shreveport, La. Don’t know if Downtown or Regional or date and time. I’ll try to find out next time I talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 From the P/CG RUNWAY HEADING− The magnetic direction that corresponds with the runway centerline extended, not the painted runway number. When cleared to “fly or maintain runway heading,” pilots are expected to fly or maintain the heading that corresponds with the extended centerline of the departure runway. Drift correction shall not be applied; e.g., Runway 4, actual magnetic heading of the runway centerline 044, fly 044. The controller is misinterpreting the meaning of "departure runway" which is not the necessarily the active runway or the runway is use for departures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Have your buddy make sure the tapes are pulled/saved. Based on the information provided, the controller screwed up. Now if the clearance was, say, cleared xyz approach runway 9, circle runway 18, that would be different.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Immelman said: Have your buddy make sure the tapes are pulled/saved. Based on the information provided, the controller screwed up. I agree. "Fly runway heading" being defined as "make a 180" makes no sense. Now was that a left turn or a right turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Does he own a Mooney? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 I don't believe there is a defined thing as "the active runway"? You can be cleared to any runway by the tower controller at any time. The only meaning I can think of of "active runway" is when you're told "Runway X in use," which just means to expect you'll get a clearance to that runway rather than the other(s). As such, it's hard to think of any scenario where the tower controller has a leg to stand on, especially if he cleared the pilot for a low approach to runway 9. If so, runway 9 would be the ONLY runway that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdub Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 I have 3 years as a tower controller, 22 years and counting as an approach controller. Without the benefit of listening to the tapes, given how you described the situation, I would say that your friend was correct. I routinely issue practice approach clearances to "inactive" runways and usually issue "runway heading" for the missed approach - to me this means the heading of the runway to which the approach was flown and I've never had a pilot interpret those instructions any other way. Having said all this, it will be important to review the tapes, many occurrences have been due to what someone thought they said, or thought they heard. It's why in our recurrent training "read back, hear back" is often one of the themes. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 46 minutes ago, ohdub said: I have 3 years as a tower controller, 22 years and counting as an approach controller. Without the benefit of listening to the tapes, given how you described the situation, I would say that your friend was correct. I routinely issue practice approach clearances to "inactive" runways and usually issue "runway heading" for the missed approach - to me this means the heading of the runway to which the approach was flown and I've never had a pilot interpret those instructions any other way. What would be more troubling is if a pilot going missed from a practice approach suddenly turned and flew runway heading on the “active” runway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 So... In this thread there is plenty of experience... 1) ATC 2) CFII, with a specialty in FARs... 3) IR pilots... 4) And me... 5) Not enough info to go on...? 6) Something got mis-understood, mis-heard, mis-interpreted... by somebody... Get the tapes info if possible... the PIC will want to know what happened... as much as we would like to know... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 Maybe it's available on LiveATC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 21 hours ago, Rookie said: Does he own a Mooney? Bonanza. Probably why he was treated so shabily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyfast Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 N138AD Flightaware shows Jan.27 around 10:30 AM SHV airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Junkin Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 Not on LiveATC. I searched both KSHV and the 119.9 approach freq with no joy. Hopefully saves someone else some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMc Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 I hadn't seen the reply from @ohdub and was curious what a controller would say, so I asked over in a FB Group with controllers. They all basically said the same as OHDUB that flying 090 is what would be expected. I know I would have done the same thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Statham Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 hours ago, mooneyflyfast said: Bonanza. Probably why he was treated so shabily I feel his pain. That’s why I sold my old V tail and bought a REAL aeroplane! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unit74 Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Ross Statham said: I feel his pain. That’s why I sold my old V tail and bought a REAL aeroplane! How are you enjoying the Cub these days? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Statham Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Unit74 said: How are you enjoying the Cub these days? Thanks for the laff! Needed it this morning!~ Never had the pleasure of flying that real airplane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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