CIES FUEL SENDERS & LOW FUEL ANNUNCIATOR

[LANCECASPER]

Since the Cies fuel senders that are interfaced with my JPI-930 are frequency (digital) and the Mooney Annuniciator measures resistance it looks like I will lose the low fuel warnings for each tank. This is fine since the fuel indications will be much more accurate over all. Has anyone else who has done the Cies senders (frequency mode) found a way to keep the annunciators, or is this common in this upgrade? Thanks

[carusoam]

That could be alarming... or not.

Lets ask the @fuellevel Cies guy... (adding low level fuel alarm to fuel floats, that is standard for some Mooneys)

Memory issues can be a bear...  forgetting to check fuel status over a long period of time is more easily possible...

The light coming on, on the panel, is a last chance for not running out of fuel...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... or memory expert.

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

You'll no longer be using the Mooney Annunciator, but you'll instead be using your JPI with a much more robust set of alarms and message that you won't miss the Mooney Annunciator. The JPI makes up for it in spades!

You have a low fuel level for both Left and Right tanks plus you have many more messages and alerts that are programmable including:

Fuel required to either Waypoint or Destination and Fuel Reserve  - By default these are at the next waypoint and you'll have to change the proocol on your GPS (if my memory is right) in order to show required and reserve at the Destination - since the Destination comes from the GPS.

Then there are also enabling advisory limits, programming pre-alarms which are user defined alarms that comes on earlier than POH defined limitations for almost everything including CHT. So for example rather than waiting for redline CHT warning you can program a pre-alarm for any CHT at 400F or whatever you'd iike. You can do the same for fuel values I believe. 

Truth is I am always watching my fuel reserve at destination I don't think I recall ever seeing a low fuel alarm! 

[LANCECASPER]

Thanks! That's what I was hoping. 

[jlunseth]

Yes, as Paul said, you get a low fuel message on the 930. It is a little annoying though, at least the way mine works. If you run one tank down to under ten gallons then you get a low fuel warning that does not go away for the remainder of the flight. The other tank can be completely full but the message will stay. My aircraft has a capacity of 75.6 gallons, 37.8 per side. So one tank at ten and the other at 37.8 gives you 47.8, or well over half of total fuel capacity. Presently, I deal with it by not letting a tank go under 10, but even if you are at 10+10 that is more than 25% of capacity. There may be a way for your A&P or avionics shop to change the alert level maybe to 5 gals., I would look in to that if I were you. My recollection is that a few years ago JPI gave some shops the ability to change all but the POH redline settings for the aircraft, don’t know if that is still true. If you wind up sending your 930 in to JPI to change it over to receive frequency signals you might want to talk to them about it beforehand.

[carusoam]

JL,

The POH for the LBs gives guidance for when the low level lights come on...

The early LBs the number was probably copied from earlier models... something like 3 gallons... that later got increased to 6 gallons...

a pilot could easily run one tank dry, following the usual procedure...  load balancing along the way...

 

If a pilot relied on the light to come on with three useful gallons left... at 15gph FF...  

That would be a land now kind of warning... you have 12 minutes + gliding distance to be successful...  

 

On the East coast where I live... there is an airport every 20 minutes or so... at the mid-point... a 12  minute warning could be tight...

 

I have only seen the light come on once in the wild...  5hrs and 900nm to make that happen...

two lights, independent of each other, in the O1’s annunciator...

When the light comes on, there is a circuit in the design... to keep it from going off and on in turbulence...

There are two MSers that have proven their skills at running out of power at altitude... and gliding perfectly to the nearest airport...    I would need to stick to the 12 minutes only...

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Yes, as Paul said, you get a low fuel message on the 930. It is a little annoying though, at least the way mine works. If you run one tank down to under ten gallons then you get a low fuel warning that does not go away for the remainder of the flight. The other tank can be completely full but the message will stay. My aircraft has a capacity of 75.6 gallons, 37.8 per side. So one tank at ten and the other at 37.8 gives you 47.8, or well over half of total fuel capacity. Presently, I deal with it by not letting a tank go under 10, but even if you are at 10+10 that is more than 25% of capacity. There may be a way for your A&P or avionics shop to change the alert level maybe to 5 gals., I would look in to that if I were you. My recollection is that a few years ago JPI gave some shops the ability to change all but the POH redline settings for the aircraft, don’t know if that is still true. If you wind up sending your 930 in to JPI to change it over to receive frequency signals you might want to talk to them about it beforehand.

Thanks, the software on the newer units  now allows you to select frequency in configuration on the JPI-930. I will see if the low fuel indication can be changed on the JPIl

[jlunseth]

Anthony, there is also a warning about takeoff with less than 12 gallons in the POH, its there because the fuel could flow away from the inlet, and maybe that is what JPI had in mind. And I shouldn't necessarily blame JPI, it could be where my A&P set it, I don't know. Maybe the 12 gal. problem is why it is set so high. But the 12 gal. problem does not affect landing. I don't mind getting the message because I know what is in my tanks, I just ignore it. Its the passengers who mind. The old annunciator must have read both tanks, because it would only alert when both tanks were low. I only got the light once during approach, at the end of a very long flight.

There are several alerts like that on the JPI, for example, low fuel pressure. There is no redline in the 231 POH for fuel pressure, high or low, but JPI put a low limit in. Its obviously its for cruise, but the JPI does not distinguish between cruise and idle. I get a flashing light during taxi, always. I have had several instructors ask what that means and I have to run through the explanation about the faux warnings in the JPI, so now I just have a regular speech I give at the beginning of an instructional flight, to save the time while flying. I still would not give the unit up, it does marvelous things for engine operation.

[flysamo]

have ceis and jp1 930 units ,low fuel come on at 12 gallons and setting are adjustable start out with 89 gallons and systems is smooth and work great

[jlunseth]

3 hours ago, flysamo said:

have ceis and jp1 930 units ,low fuel come on at 12 gallons and setting are adjustable start out with 89 gallons and systems is smooth and work great

Is that 12 gallons in each tank or 12 gallons total? If it is 12 gallons total, do you know how to program that?