Rat Socks, Mouse Boots or anything else you want to call them...

[M20F-1968]

I am doing some cleaning up of my F and the rat socks were torn and unusable.  I have been looking for what would be appropriate to replace them with.  

One problem seems to be that the material gets pulled past the hole in the sheet metal when the gear is retracted, tearing-up the rat sock.  

LASAR makes them out of lighter material - gaberdine cloth

Aero Comfort makes them out of leather, and says Mooney makes them from leather, but I have never heard of Mooney doing so.  It also would seem that leather would get wet and subsequently get hard.

I have a set that are thicker cloth.  I have had them apparently for over 15 years and do not remember how I got them.

The newer Mooneys have an inner cage with a much more complex arrangement.

I have the wheel well liners, so I question whether I even need them.

If I do need them, now are they glued in?  3M yellow trim adhesive has been recommended by LASAR and 3M Black super adhesive was recommended by my mechanic.  The black stuff is probably better, but probably a PITA to get off.  

Recommendations please.........

John Breda

 

[47U]

I used the LASAR socks.  The material seems like something rodents might not want to chew on, as compared to leather, perhaps.  I used sticky-back velcro to attach them, so removable for inspections (in theory).  I installed them on the wheel well side, not in the wing box.  I did observe some duct tape residue next to the gear control rod passthrough inside the wing box and wonder if I should have installed them on the inside, but I’m not going to change them now (without good reason, of course).  

[larrynimmo]

If you search on the site, I posted photos and descriptions on how to make your own with a sewing machine...once I cut our the materials, it only took me about 10 minutes to make mine...then they were glued in place...perfect solution 

[EricJ]

I bought a LASAR set a while back anticipating that mine were going bad.   The IA that did a lot of work I've had to undo on my airplane just before I bought it put a brand new set on, and pop-riveted them on with some sort of aluminum frame that's underneath the sock material.   They're gonna be a PITA to get off.   :'(

[larrynimmo]

I found the listing

landing rod dust boots

[PT20J]

Mine are duct taped on. I read somewhere that Mooney originally added them when they discovered exhaust getting into the cabin through the openings, but I don’t know if that’s accurate.

[M20F-1968]

If I have wheel well liners, do I really need the Rat Socks?

John Breda

[47U]

2 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

If I have wheel well liners, do I really need the Rat Socks?

John,

I have no hands-on experience with the LASAR wheel well liners, but it appears to me that it’s not difficult for the mouse to climb up onto the retraction tube, and follow that down to get through the hole in the wheel well liner that the retraction tube runs through.   You can probably evaluate your particular installation better than some pictures I scrounged up off the internet.

You have an exceptional aircraft and I’m sure you don’t want some vermin rummaging around in the interior.

 

[PT20J]

I recall reading somewhere that Mooney added them after noting CO intrusion into the cabin. I have no way to know if that is true or not. Might be interesting to measure CO levels with and without.

Skip

[Gary0747]

20 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

If I have wheel well liners, do I really need the Rat Socks?

I just came back from the airport after finding a full cup of rat poison pellets behind my wheel well liner. A mouse hauled them and likely died elsewhere. Fortunately they did not penetrate my rat socks that I made years ago with stretchy nylon fabric and Velcro. Now to clean up the mess and thoroughly hose out the wheel well. My Laser wheel liners have a gap at the small end like they should have been made 3 inches longer. Has anybody fixed this?  On the retract rod I plan to coat it with grease to see if that stops them going in that way.  

[larrynimmo]

5 hours ago, PT20J said:

I recall reading somewhere that Mooney added them after noting CO intrusion into the cabin. I have no way to know if that is true or not. Might be interesting to measure CO levels with and without.

Skip

With my CO hand held precision meter I typically read 2 - 5 ppm of CO when cruising whether the heat is on or not. There are no leaks in exhaust except for the slip tubes...

[PT20J]

13 minutes ago, larrynimmo said:

With my CO hand held precision meter I typically read 2 - 5 ppm of CO when cruising whether the heat is on or not. There are no leaks in exhaust except for the slip tubes...

Is that with or without socks?

[larrynimmo]

My socks are full coverage and we’re installed two years ago.

[ArtVandelay]

With my CO hand held precision meter I typically read 2 - 5 ppm of CO when cruising whether the heat is on or not. There are no leaks in exhaust except for the slip tubes...

Mine reads 0 in cruise. I would check your door seals for leaks.

[carusoam]

CO has a tendency to find ways into the cockpit...

Most often, in line with the firewall... because the exhaust pipes dump so much right there...

It only takes a small hole, like a missing screw or fastener... to get a reading...

The cool thing about about a portable CO monitor... it can be placed near a suspected inlet... to see if the number increases any...

Any air inlet can be tested this way...

areas around the Johnson bar can be tested...

The cabin is under vacuum during flight... so some really strange places can allow CO to be sucked in...

One of the less known source of CO entering the cabin is the cable tray at the back wall...where wires enter the tail cone...

There is supposed to be insulation to block air entry around the wires... often the years take its role on the insulation...

PP thoughts only , not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gagarin]

I use this to keep mice away, very effective. I just place it next to the tire

[FlybyNite]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:45 PM, carusoam said:

CO has a tendency to find ways into the cockpit...

Most often, in line with the firewall... because the exhaust pipes dump so much right there...

It only takes a small hole, like a missing screw or fastener... to get a reading...

The cool thing about about a portable CO monitor... it can be placed near a suspected inlet... to see if the number increases any...

Any air inlet can be tested this way...

areas around the Johnson bar can be tested...

The cabin is under vacuum during flight... so some really strange places can allow CO to be sucked in...

One of the less known source of CO entering the cabin is the cable tray at the back wall...where wires enter the tail cone...

There is supposed to be insulation to block air entry around the wires... often the years take its role on the insulation...

PP thoughts only , not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

I use a gas alert clip by ITM instruments (yellow canaries we call them at work). I do get some alarms in the cab when I'm flying slow and in maneuvers but for the most part it stays quiet. I used to clip it to the lower part of the back seat, but it went off quite a bit and now I have it in the baggage compartment. Thoughts are if its going off on high alarm way back there, then there might be a leak in the muff or something serious to contend with as the whole cab is saturated with CO. The low alarm is 25ppm and the high is 75ppm. As a reference, when brushing off the snow from the truck and walking around it while it was running, my CO monitor was going off and it had a reading of 145ppm as a max. OSHA is 50ppm for 8 hours

[carusoam]

The ITM gas clip CO monitor...   https://www.globaltestsupply.com/brands/gas-clip-technologies

 

Seeing if @DanM20C is around... Dan has some insight on CO, the sensors, and the typical readings....

Mostly while flying, people may see a few PPM.   When they start seeing numbers above 10 the question comes up of what is the source, and how to stop it...

 

Many of us are using the same sensor...

A few have a different but common aviation CO monitor...

Osha guidelines are interesting...   But, if you are seeing numbers higher than standard....

You may have the initial stages of a leak showing...

As Dan found out... when a leak starts... it can crack open in a flight or two...

Not trying to raise any issues or generate fear... just discussing the small numbers that are usually seen in flight in Mooneys...

Stand by to see if Dan is in the neighborhood...

PP thoughts only, not a CO monitor expert...

Best regards,

-a-

[DanM20C]

23 hours ago, carusoam said:

Seeing if @DanM20C is around... Dan has some insight on CO, the sensors, and the typical readings....

I'm by no means an expert.  But I like to see no or very very low readings.  Most of us see 0-2ppm in cruise.  If it's higher than that it's worth investigating as to why.  Often time people find very serious problems with relatively low CO readings.  CO monitors can be used as an early indicator of exhaust health not unlike what engine monitors do for the rest of the engine.  I have had people report to me simple exhaust leaks all the way to a broken engine mount, found my their CO detectors.  Keep an eye on them and listen to what they are saying.  

Folks like to quote OSHA numbers for exposure over an 8hr day.  I don't believe that is conservative enough for aviation.  CO in the airplane effects the health of the pilot as well as it's an indicator of the health of the airplane.  

Cheers,
Dan