FlyingVAce Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Ok the disclosures first. VFR( will get IFR as soon as I get out of rentals). Budget 65K, 850 hours my TT. Smattering of complex along the way ( CJ6, Arrow ). 90% me myself and I: no 4 people, X-Country 300-500 miles max to visit kids, I’m current but been flying C172 last few years. I know my limitations and plan on transition training at length if I can find a seasoned Mooney captain here ( KTRL is my base ). Will be hangared. I've heard its landing that’s tricky. My dad flew a 20C for years but I was pretty green when I flew it and he was R seat each time. I’m 61 years old and blessed with good health. Ive searched out what insurance costs will be, annuals, unexpected things and I’m good. So I’m reaching out for which M20 folks recommend for this low time pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Was trying to change the header #$%*, Considering a Mooney for XCountry Plane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Ellis Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 If interested, we have one member at KTRL with a C model. I am at Spinks which is a very short flight away if you want to see C models up close. But you have some experience with them through your Dad so maybe not but let me know. I can reach out to the member that has his at Terrell if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Your Budget + mission = C or E The 200hp fuel injected E goes faster and operates LOP. Otherwise, they are about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 32 minutes ago, FlyingVAce said: Ok the disclosures first. VFR( will get IFR as soon as I get out of rentals). Budget 65K, 850 hours my TT. Smattering of complex along the way ( CJ6, Arrow ). 90% me myself and I: no 4 people, X-Country 300-500 miles max to visit kids, I’m current but been flying C172 last few years. I know my limitations and plan on transition training at length if I can find a seasoned Mooney captain here ( KTRL is my base ). Will be hangared. I've heard its landing that’s tricky. My dad flew a 20C for years but I was pretty green when I flew it and he was R seat each time. I’m 61 years old and blessed with good health. Ive searched out what insurance costs will be, annuals, unexpected things and I’m good. So I’m reaching out for which M20 folks recommend for this low time pilot. M20E would probably be the way to go. LOP at 145 to 150 knots at 9ish gallons per hour. The range you're looking for can easily be performed by the M20E, and 65k should be able to get a nice one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Welcome back VAce! Its been a while... Congrats on having good health... Lets get started. Did you say you have some Mooney experience already? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just accept the fact that your first budget isn’t your final budget. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydvrboy Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Good news, you have options! You need to be looking at the C/D, E, F, or G. There’s really not a lot of difference between each of these. Pay more attention to how each is equipped and maintained. You want the expensive things to have been taken care of by the previous owners. GPS, ADSB, autopilot, tanks sealed, good engine, NO CORROSION, etc. Because we all know the differences between models, we tend to put too much emphasis on them. So what if one is 10 it’s faster, that only gets you there 10 - 15 minutes earlier, big whoop. How does that compare to spending an extra $10k - $50k addressing the items above? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Ace, landing is only difficult if you're too fast. I spent almost a decade at two 3000' fields (one was obstructed) with no issues. That's the benefit of the right transition training, not just grabbing the local CFI. For a C or E: 85 mph on final, slowing to 75 mph over the fence, minus 5 mph gor every 300 lbs. under gross for that particular landing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Statham Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Hank said: Ace, landing is only difficult if you're too fast. I spent almost a decade at two 3000' fields (one was obstructed) with no issues. That's the benefit of the right transition training, not just grabbing the local CFI. For a C or E: 85 mph on final, slowing to 75 mph over the fence, minus 5 mph gor every 300 lbs. under gross for that particular landing. Thank you Hank! Well said. I was taught to fly Mooneys in a G model by an instructor buddy in his airplane, and taught me precisely how to get the numbers right. Once you learn the process, it’s repeatable, and you’ll find it’s no big deal after you’ve practiced. I highly recommend you create a checklist for steps to take to set up in the pattern to successfully hit your numbers, first using a standard pattern, and after you’ve mastered that process, create a list for the times you’re directed to make a straight in approach or you fly an instrument approach. You’ll find that’ll help you get it right every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I've heard Bob Kromer speak at several Mooney Summits. He started as Flight Test Pilot before becoming Mooney Chief Engineer then President, so I pay attention to his tips on flying Mooneys. Bob says that every extra knot you carry into ground effect in your Mooney will be an additional 100 feet of float before touchdown. So 5 knots extra for wind, 5 knots extra for momma beside you and 5 knots extra "for safety" will put you 1500' down the runway beyond where you should have touched down. That is why so many people think that Mooneys are hard to land. Know your numbers for your actual weight, then fly the numbers, and landings are easy! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 https://beta.trade-a-plane.com/listings/1963-mooney-m20c-119275 A decent example to look at from a quick search. Engine has an odd SMOH for sure but avionics are very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 65 AMUs buys a lot of Charlie. Not quite so much Echo. Difference in trip times is usually just a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 I’m getting catching up on the tread. I remember my dad saying correct speeds on landings was key. He’d bust my ass if I was 5 k hot . ( Crusty TWA Capt ). Skydrv: I see your point 16 hours ago, 201Steve said: Just accept the fact that your first budget isn’t your final budget. I hear that” Ok so an E. Ok I’ll journey that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Never seen how a manual gear bar works . Probably on u the tube. I,m a veterinarian not an airplane expert. I know of Maxwell in Longview ie, his son. So someone like that when it gets serious but heck in my ramblings looking, is there a way to have a “Sherpa” to help me know what to look out for. I’m starting my homework by being on here but this is as overwhelming to me as orthopedic surgery might be for others. I have a willing student mindset. ( wish my dad was still here but he’s doing low passes in his Swift at an air show for Jesus). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 hours ago, steingar said: 65 AMUs buys a lot of Charlie. Not quite so much Echo. Difference in trip times is usually just a few minutes. ⬆️⬆️⬆️ This is worth noting twice. $65k will get you an M20C with everything you’ll want, or an M20E that you’ll want to spend an additional $20k upgrading. For your proposed 300-500 mile cross country trips, you’ll save 4-7 minutes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, FlyingVAce said: Never seen how a manual gear bar works . Probably on u the tube. I,m a veterinarian not an airplane expert. I know of Maxwell in Longview ie, his son. So someone like that when it gets serious but heck in my ramblings looking, is there a way to have a “Sherpa” to help me know what to look out for. I’m starting my homework by being on here but this is as overwhelming to me as orthopedic surgery might be for others. I have a willing student mindset. ( wish my dad was still here but he’s doing low passes in his Swift at an air show for Jesus). There are many, many threads here on PPI {Pre-Purchase Inspection]. vintage planes typically have fewer worries than more recent planes, simply because of the difference in required investment. The big gotchas are always gonna be the same: Engine hours and condition Prop condition Airframe condition and corrosion [check for recent SB208] avionics--what's installed vs. what you want to have [it's much less expensive to buy it already installed than to pay someone to do it] Then there's the "little stuff": is the nose gear strut dented? age and condition of the landing gear pucks condition of the windshield airframe STCs that are important to you-- one-piece windshield 201 windshield one-piece belly which prop is installed? where is the OAT sensor mounted? which engine monitor? which autopilot? brake caliper reversal? flap gap seals? wheel well liners? etc., etc. And of course the nice-to-haves" condition of interior condition of windows condition of paint It's considered a wise move by many people to buy a plane that has been flying regularly the past couple of years, the more the better, to prevent undesired effects from sitting to hit you rather than the current owner. Also, look for copies of logbooks that you can review / have reviewed for you to winnow out the non-contenders, then check the others a little closer. Good luck with your search! Don't rule out Cs right away, look at C and E models and buy the one in the best condition with as many of your wants already installed as possible. I believe @gsxrpilot keeps a list of people who ignore the PPI and live to regret it; so far, we don't have any who have not survived missing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just a suggestion... Make a spreadsheet listing specific airplanes by N number across the top and features down the side. That will allow you to compare apples to apples and learn the market. No one will do comps for you in this, you do it yourself. You might order the feature list by importance top to bottom. Include engine hours, useful load, etc, etc... When you've settled on a plane that you are sure is a top candidate, get someone from MooneySpace to either go look at it or give you an owners opinion on it. Send me a PM and I'm happy to do that for you. After step 1, if you're still interested, get electronic copies of the logs and send them to Laura at SWAT. Along with about $250, she'll give you a very detailed review and let you know of any red flags. She knows her stuff. If you get the thumbs up from Laura, it's time to schedule a pre-buy inspection. Get it scheduled, but prior to starting the inspection, make an offer, agree on the price, sign a contract to buy. Send the plane to the shop for a thorough pre-buy inspection. If you've done the above steps, or unless the seller is misrepresenting the plane, it should pass. Start looking for a Mooney CFI for some quality transition training. Steps 1 - 3 will need to be done in about 3 days on a good Mooney, or it will be sold. BTW... there is a list and you don't want to be on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Top of my list was recent and frequent use for the last couple of years. This was FAR more important to me than engine time SMOH. The vast majority of Mooneys I initially considered I found out had been sitting for extended periods of time; I walked on those. Mechanical stuff, especially airplanes, need to be operated to remain in reliable, good condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahir K Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 My airplane is currently at the shop. I'm a quick hop over in Dallas with an E model that I'd be happy to show you around in if I ever get the plane back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 Thank you all for the valuable information. Extra thanks to Hank. I’m writing everything down and keeping a diatribe of you all’s advice and thoughts. Anyone whom wants can reach me at directly at (512) 470-4701 or buckvantrease@gmail.com . Hope I didn’t bust any FAR.s posting my personal information . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/24/2021 at 10:11 PM, Ross Statham said: Thank you Hank! Well said. I was taught to fly Mooneys in a G model by an instructor buddy in his airplane, and taught me precisely how to get the numbers right. Once you learn the process, it’s repeatable, and you’ll find it’s no big deal after you’ve practiced. I highly recommend you create a checklist for steps to take to set up in the pattern to successfully hit your numbers, first using a standard pattern, and after you’ve mastered that process, create a list for the times you’re directed to make a straight in approach or you fly an instrument approach. You’ll find that’ll help you get it right every time. Thanks Ross. Stashing your advice for the near future. Hopefully soon Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVAce Posted January 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 12:38 PM, Hank said: brake caliper reversal What’s that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko182 Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, FlyingVAce said: What’s that. Its a speed mod. Moves the brake caliper out of the way to reduce drag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 10 hours ago, FlyingVAce said: Thank you all for the valuable information. Extra thanks to Hank. I’m writing everything down and keeping a diatribe of you all’s advice and thoughts. Anyone whom wants can reach me at directly at (512) 470-4701 or buckvantrease@gmail.com . Hope I didn’t bust any FAR.s posting my personal information . Posting personal info in public places is OK... but... you might want to make it a bit more challenging for bots to find your number... People will often write the word for a number or two in there... PP thoughts only, not a captia guy... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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