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avionics upgrade plan and input requested (Ovation/Bravo)


FJC

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Inventory appears to be drying up. My target plane is in escrow (someone elses! doah!)…maybe it will fall out but I do not expect it to. So, it is looking like I am going to have to consider planes with original panel and do an upgrade after the purchase. I am targeting Ovations but will consider a good Bravo. I was hoping to get input from you. Here is what I have so far:

Typical Original Ovation equipment (or possible Bravo) from the 90’s:
KX155
KX165
KN64 DME
ADSB of some sort
Various Factory Round Gauges
KCS-55A HSI
EDM700
KFC150 Auto Pilot
EDM700
KLN89 GPS
Turn Coordinator
KMA-24 Audio Panel
WX-950 Stormscope

Requirements(have settled on Garmin):

Do precision GPS approaches
Display synthetic vision on a device (more than likely a portable at this point) for situational awareness
Integrate KFC150 such that it will fly the approaches
Integrate flight director (preserve current functioning of flight director on King Horizon Indicator)
Have a backup attitude indicator
Have ability to quickly plan IFR flights w/o twisting a bunch of knobs (probably iPad)
Minimal down time: no complicated panel work

Biggest Bang for the buck:
Remove KX155 and replace with GTN650txi or 750txi
Trade the ADSB transponder unit if not already a GTX345 (want AHRS output) or add GDL39
*Remove King Horizon Indicator and replace with G5
Remove KN64 DME
Add a 2nd G5 for backup Horizon
Remove the KLN89 GPS which is covered by GTN650/750
Remove KCS-55A HSI and replace with G5 HSI
*Remove KMA-24 and replace with PS PMA8000BT audio panel
Keep the WX-950 although not sure I can show data anywhere else or whether I truly need this (please comment)
Keep the EDM700 (again, comments welcome)
Keep turn coordinator (I think this drives the autopilot...can anything else drive autopilot?)

   *optional

Dream list: (Garmin 3x or G500)
Probably won’t happen right now because we’d like to fly/train asap after purchase plus have plenty of budget for training/flying. But, what would you do in above plan to not needlessly spend money to achieve 3x or G500 down the road? The only thing that comes to mind is that I would have acquired possibly 2 G5’s and will only need 1 and perhaps have redundant AHRS output via 3x/G500?

Anyone see any flaws in logic or equipment gaps that need to be filled? Example: am I missing an interface for KFC150 or do I need something more to display SVT (I dont think I will get Synthetic Vision on anything but on iPad for now until I spring for new panels)? Thank you.

Anyone want to sell their Ovation :)

Freddy

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FJC:

 

I just went through almost the exact same thing on my Ovation. Here is what I did and I am very happy with it (for a reason I don't recall, it was suggested to go with the GI275 instead of the G5). Feel free to PM me for additional details or questions.

 

- KLN89B and one KX165 removed for Garmin 650 ( I kept the KX155 for Nav/Com 2)

- Removed all vacuum systems (picked up 35 pounds of useful) and replaced the KI256 Attitude Indicator with a Garmin GI275, which drives the KFC150 and all associated functions

- I replaced the transponder a year earlier with a Lynx9000 for ADSB, weather, etc (I liked the idea of not building it into 650 for redundancy)

- I use a Dynon portable for additional backup for the GI275 but it isn't required

- I have the JPI 730 and like it very much.

 

Mark

 

 

GI275.jpg

gtn650.jpg

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3 hours ago, MarkD34M said:

FJC:

 

I just went through almost the exact same thing on my Ovation. Here is what I did and I am very happy with it (for a reason I don't recall, it was suggested to go with the GI275 instead of the G5). Feel free to PM me for additional details or questions.

 

- KLN89B and one KX165 removed for Garmin 650 ( I kept the KX155 for Nav/Com 2)

- Removed all vacuum systems (picked up 35 pounds of useful) and replaced the KI256 Attitude Indicator with a Garmin GI275, which drives the KFC150 and all associated functions

- I replaced the transponder a year earlier with a Lynx9000 for ADSB, weather, etc (I liked the idea of not building it into 650 for redundancy)

- I use a Dynon portable for additional backup for the GI275 but it isn't required

- I have the JPI 730 and like it very much.

 

Mark

 

 

GI275.jpg

gtn650.jpg

@MarkD34M, your comments provoked further reading...from what I gather, the GI275 supports analog input from legacy Nav/Com and G5 will not. It also can do GPSS emulation which is needed for those that want to drive stec-50 which is n/a for Ovation. Its slowly sinking in till I change my mind on the brand/components!

@MarkD34M, ack on the Dynan portable for AI backup. Thank you for the info. I may ping you when I pull the trigger.

 

Freddy

 

 

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@FJC, my panel was nearly identical to the one you listed up top.  I’m currently in my 3rd phase - replacing the autopilot and the L-3 ESI500 standby ADI with a 4-axis GFC500 and a GI275...so the “after” pic below will be outdated in the next 3 to 4 weeks.

Reading through your post, your logic seems right on.  Focus your money and efforts on a good engine monitor first...preferably an EDM900 or 930...and also on your 750Xi and/or 650Xi.  Also consider the L-3 NGT9000+ for your transponder and ADS/B needs...and know that the “+” in the 9000+ gives you Active Traffic (TAS/TCAS)...something the 345 doesn’t do.

Any questions, am happy to help...just reach out.  Happy to help folks spend their hard-earned money.  :-)

5B995C8F-83D7-4A85-ABE5-BA3C699017E0.jpeg

9EB0A7C3-3274-4E83-A7B4-323D3B998FF3.jpeg

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Following! I have exact same plans and thanks much for the input. @StevenL757 did you by chance note the UL for increase from removing vacuum system?

Also, where did you get this done? I’m looking at Sarasota Avionics.

Last question, how much down time does it take or should we budget for to be safe?

Thanks!

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As Mark said, look at the GI275 over the M5. 

Apparently the M5 was built for a specific need and then they expanded a little upon it.

GI275 is a new beast and does a lot more than the M5.  It also has an Autopilot version that supposedly drives most if not all APs.  To remove the vacuum system may take two GI275s or some other backup AI.  You can't run on just one - except some limited configurations.

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2 hours ago, TheStig said:

Following! I have exact same plans and thanks much for the input. @StevenL757 did you by chance note the UL for increase from removing vacuum system?

Also, where did you get this done? I’m looking at Sarasota Avionics.

Last question, how much down time does it take or should we budget for to be safe?

Thanks!

Islip Avionics has done my panel work for the last nearly-10 years, supported by Brian Kendrick in Texas where needed.  When my initial "phase 1" was done in July 2016, it included a legacy G500, GTN750, L-3 ESI-500, Lynx NGT9000+, PMA450 audio, and new clock.  As both vacuum systems were removed in the process, my overall net UL increase was about 24 pounds.  Completion time for the above work was about 4 weeks, give or take a couple of days.  They finished within that timeframe and kept me informed at every possible opportunity.  "Phase 2" was no different...on-schedule and on-budget.  So far, my autopilot upgrade is on track to also finish at or below budget, and ahead-of-schedule.

I'd be cautious of Sarasota Avionics, only because I've heard stories of less-than-favorable quotes (on the very high side), and unrealistic timeframes to complete.  Granted, they've done no work for me, so just passing on what accounts I've heard from that shop.  From the limited Sarasota install cases of which I'm familiar, the driver behind their high quotes has stemmed from them being asked to do work which they may not have been as familiar with as other jobs they've done before.  So in a way, they've tended to "learn" on your airplane.  There may be folks on here or elsewhere who may have had positive experiences with them however.

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2 hours ago, TheStig said:

Following! I have exact same plans and thanks much for the input. @StevenL757 did you by chance note the UL for increase from removing vacuum system?

Also, where did you get this done? I’m looking at Sarasota Avionics.

Last question, how much down time does it take or should we budget for to be safe?

Thanks!

I believe its 20 pounds removing both vacuum systems.

WB.pdf

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3 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


Did you ever check your W&B? I just did a courtesy check I see what looks like a number errors.
For example the JPI 900 doesn’t weigh 4lbs (2lbs) and the ST180 is not 9lbs, but 6.7lbs all in. And the math might be wrong as well.

All the weights were taken directly from the poh. The ST180 itself is not 9 pounds, but theres more to the system of that than just the HSI by itself. 

Screenshot_20210103-100945_Drive.jpg

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Buy airplane, fly airplane for 100 hrs.  Replace what doesn’t work or what doesn’t meet your actual mission needs after you’ve lived with it through at least one annual.  Assuming you found an O still sporting only a -89 GPS that had a tail beacon plugged in, and a well sorted KFC-150, you have an amazingly capable traveling machine.  A stratus and iPad added to that and you’ve got all the situational awareness in the world

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As noted, the G5 will not provide the necessary attitude source for your autopilot, but a GI 275 will. When I went through this recently, the GI 275s were significantly more expensive to buy and install. Once you upgrade your budget from G5s to GI 275s, you're not far off from this instead: stick with dual G5s and replace the autopilot with the GFC500 (which people rave about). You can recoup significant money selling your KFC 150. Then you'll be in a good position in the future to install a G3X touch; at that point you'd sell one of your G5s, keep the other as the backup to the G3X touch, and you would already have the autopilot that the G3X touch works with.

Am I counting three G5s in your plan? Keep in mind that when you have two as AI and HSI, they are linked, and the HSI will automatically start acting as the AI in case the AI fails. So I don't think you would need a backup AI.

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Another possibility; there's a reasonable chance you could find one with a GNS 430W or 530W. If you're willing to use that prior generation navigator (I trained with a 650 but now own a plane with a 530W and am very happy with it), that could free up a lot of budget to allocate elsewhere. Just adding a Flightstream 210 to a GNS navigator can enable you to do all your planning on a tablet and transfer it into the GPS.

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