Oxygen Masks and Canulas

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, PeteMc said:

On the O2 savings, I'm actually surprised at the claim of 40% savings over Oxymizer Cannulas.  This number would not surprise me at all with the use of regular cannulas.  But the point of the Oxymizers is to reduce the flow so that, in theory, there is little or no wasted O2 coming out of the tank.  The reservoir is supposed to allow you to use a much lower flow and capture the flow between breaths and during your exhale.  Then you get the same amount of O2 as if the unit was at the higher rate for regular cannulas with the continuous flow just going out into the cockpit.  

I would say it's at least that much savings. I've been using the O2D2 for several years now. I'm still on the same set of batteries. But I keep a spare set in my flight bag. 

I used to top off the O2 bottle before every long flight. Now with the O2D2 I have to add O2 maybe every second oil change. It's unbelievable how long the bottle lasts now.

[PeteMc]

Agreed, if you're using Oxymizers or any kind of reservoir, you need to get the flow correct for that person.  Usually the calibrations on the gauges are pretty close, but always on the conservative side (as they should be).  So the use of a Pulse Oximeter is really needed to get the flow down to where you have enough, but you're still not just blowing out O2 due to too high of a flow.  (Or not blowing out more than necessary for the individual to still have enough O2.) 

On demand systems should conserve the most O2 by only providing what you need (or adjusted for) when you take a breath.  But a well adjusted flow using an Oxymizer should do a pretty good job too.

And with the CO2 accumulation in the larger reservoirs....  Is that related to masks?  My Oxymizers have a little flapper that *supposedly* keeps your exhale from going into the reservoir and thereby blowing out all the built up O2.  (Granted, no clue how effective the little flapper really is.)

[kortopates]

i would *hope* the device either defaults to full flow or has some sort of alarm that it is not functioning correctly. 

Check out the Precise system, very similar except it's purely mechanical, doesn't depend on electrical power and claims to fail at full flow.
It wasn't designed for an altitude compensaring regular though like found in most Mooney's but they'll refund if it's not compatible with your system.
With a good flow meter though like the Precise A5 and a Oxygen conserving canulla I can fly across country and back with my wife in the upper teens on my 115cuft bottle usually without a refill till I get home.
I do my own refills as well.


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[M20F-1968]

18 hours ago, kortopates said:

 

Check out the Precise system, very similar except it's purely mechanical, doesn't depend on electrical power and claims to fail at full flow.
It wasn't designed for an altitude compensaring regular though like found in most Mooney's but they'll refund if it's not compatible with your system.
With a good flow meter though like the Precise A5 and a Oxygen conserving canulla I can fly across country and back with my wife in the upper teens on my 115cuft bottle usually without a refill till I get home.
I do my own refills as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have both the O2D2 system and the Precise Flight.  I started using to O2D2 and found it so easy to use that I never have used the Precise Flight system.  Do you recommend the Precise Flight over the O2D2.  If so, perhaps I will give it a try.

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

What do you guys use as a electrical cable to connect to the mask microphone (and bypass the headset microphone?  I use DC headsets with in panel power jacks (But I also have Bose Connectors installed).  The cable I use must disconnect the microphone from the circuit and connect the mask microphone (either by switch or hard wiring).

John Breda

[PeteMc]

I don't use the panel power, just the regular plugs.  So I would only need to unplug the headset mic and plug in the mask mic.  (Vast majority of my flights are below the FLs.) 

[jlunseth]

I had a dual connector installed for both front seats so I could use either panel powered or dual plug. When I use the miked mask I just plug it into the correct female slot for the dual plug system and leave the panel powered connector plugged in as it was. I rotate the boom mike up out of the way. So I am getting reception through the panel powered connector, and probably both mikes are live but only the mike in the mask is doing any work. It works for me. If it makes a difference, I have an A20 on the pilot's side.

The dual plug receptor helps me with the miked mask, as noted. Then on the co-pilot side, if an instructor or someone else really wants to use their own headset and not the panel powered Bose X I have over there, they are welcome to do it. Back seats are dual plug only, I only have dual plug Bose X's back there. 

[exM20K]

23 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

What do you guys use as a electrical cable to connect to the mask microphone (and bypass the headset microphone?  I use DC headsets with in panel power jacks (But I also have Bose Connectors installed).  The cable I use must disconnect the microphone from the circuit and connect the mask microphone (either by switch or hard wiring).

John Breda

I have Bose connectors and just plug the mask mic into the available jack.  Works fine.

I chose the O2D2 over the precise flight unit because the latter are single user and thus more expensive than an O2D2. also it was unclear how well they work with the Mooney system.

The acclaim oxygen ports are overhead behind my shoulder, which isn’t great for the O2D2 box. Three years later, I still haven’t found a good place to mount it, and it mostly sits in the right front seat.  The precise flight would be cleaner in that respect 

 

dan

[aviatoreb]

1 minute ago, exM20K said:

I have Bose connectors and just plug the mask mic into the available jack.  Works fine.

I chose the O2D2 over the precise flight unit because the latter are single user and thus more expensive than an O2D2. also it was unclear how well they work with the Mooney system.

The acclaim oxygen ports are overhead behind my shoulder, which isn’t great for the O2D2 box. Three years later, I still haven’t found a good place to mount it, and it mostly sits in the right front seat.  The precise flight would be cleaner in that respect 

 

dan

I mounted my O2D2 box to the ceiling.  I don't have built in O2 but I use bottles that I keep behind the front seats.  Tubes go up to the O2D2 and then back down to the pilot. Much less prone to tangles.  And at the ready to use.  I just got a piece of velcro tape and put a hole in it and put one of the screws that's already there through the hole and then wrapped the velcro around the O2D2 box.

Its a very convenient location.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, M20F-1968 said:

What do you guys use as a electrical cable to connect to the mask microphone (and bypass the headset microphone?  I use DC headsets with in panel power jacks (But I also have Bose Connectors installed).  The cable I use must disconnect the microphone from the circuit and connect the mask microphone (either by switch or hard wiring).

John Breda

I do the same as John and Dan. Works beautifully and most easy to switch between a mask and cannula.

 

1 hour ago, M20F-1968 said:

I have both the O2D2 system and the Precise Flight.  I started using to O2D2 and found it so easy to use that I never have used the Precise Flight system.  Do you recommend the Precise Flight over the O2D2.  If so, perhaps I will give it a try.

John Breda

I am much more paranoid about an unnecessary O2 emergency in the flight levels to add an electronics to my otherwise stone simple and very reliable built-in O2 system. Most people use the O2D2 system in the teens where risk is pretty minimal if there is an issue, but the risk really goes up in the flight levels where we've seen a number of fatalities. Given I can complete virtually any long cross country trip without a refill with my system the added risk isn't worth the the little savings to me.  The only one that appeals to me is the Precise Flight system. I would encourage you to try it and give us a pirep as you are in a unique situation to compare them side by side to to speak.

 I also carry a MH emergency backup system in the seat back that I have never needed - I believe the system Dan posted about above as having been discontinued unfortunately. 

[M20F-1968]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

I do the same as John and Dan. Works beautifully and most easy to switch between a mask and cannula.

 

I am much more paranoid about an unnecessary O2 emergency in the flight levels to add an electronics to my otherwise stone simple and very reliable built-in O2 system. Most people use the O2D2 system in the teens where risk is pretty minimal if there is an issue, but the risk really goes up in the flight levels where we've seen a number of fatalities. Given I can complete virtually any long cross country trip without a refill with my system the added risk isn't worth the the little savings to me.  The only one that appeals to me is the Precise Flight system. I would encourage you to try it and give us a pirep as you are in a unique situation to compare them side by side to to speak.

 I also carry a MH emergency backup system in the seat back that I have never needed - I believe the system Dan posted about above as having been discontinued unfortunately. 

I have not used the Precise Flight System as MH posted some research data that suggested that their system was more reliable.  I do not recall the details just now as it was 4 years or more since I read it.  In any case, when I have the opportunity I will try it.  

I too have a MH back-up O2 rescue bottle sold by MH called Co-pilot.  I do not see it any longer on their site which makes me wonder if the bottles are still available.  I also have a small 10" or so high medical bottle with regulator which I also have not used.  

I guess I have some homework to do to compare these. 

Back to me posted question, when using a mask with a microphone, what cable is used to make the connection to the mask microphone and bypass the headset microphone?

John Breda  

[kortopates]

13 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I have not used the Precise Flight System as MH posted some research data that suggested that their system was more reliable.  I do not recall the details just now as it was 4 years or more since I read it.  In any case, when I have the opportunity I will try it.  

I too have a MH back-up O2 rescue bottle sold by MH called Co-pilot.  I do not see it any longer on their site which makes me wonder if the bottles are still available.  I also have a small 10" or so high medical bottle with regulator which I also have not used.  

I guess I have some homework to do to compare these. 

Back to me posted question, when using a mask with a microphone, what cable is used to make the connection to the mask microphone and bypass the headset microphone?

John Breda  

Thanks, look forward to your Pirep.

You don't necessarily bypass the headset mic - but it depends on what your setup is. Since previous answers above were all describing a Bose Lemo plug with dual plugs - I'll  assume you just have the standard dual plug headset only option. In which case, you'll simply unplug the mike cable from your headset (keeping headset speakers plugged in) and plug in the mike cable from your mask in the mic jack. The only option to keep both headset mic plugged in with your mask mic is when you also have the powered lemo plug right next to the dual head set plugs. You will need to adjust the squelch setting when using the mask mic - at least I can no longer break squelch with the mask mic with mine until I re-adjust mine when going from conventional headset mic to the mask mic.

Edited January 1, 2021 by kortopates

[M20F-1968]

Just now, kortopates said:

Thanks, look forward to your Pirep.

You don't necessarily bypass the headset mic - but it depends on what your setup is. Since previous answers above were all describing a Bose Lemo plug with dual plugs - I'll  assume you just have the standard dual plug headset only option. In which case, you'll simply unplug the mike cable from your headset (keeping headset speakers plugged in) and plug in the mike cable from your mask in the mic jack. The only option to keep both headset mic plugged in with your mask mic is when you also have the powered lemo plug right next to the dual head set plugs. You will need to adjust the squelch setting when using the mask mic - at least I can no longer break squelch with the mask mic until I do with mine going from conventional headset mic to the mask mic.

I have the panel mounted David Clark powered headsets and also have a Bose powered LEMO plug and the standard two jack system.  Obviously I can only plug in one headset in rach station at a time, but have a choice of what I can use.  The DC plug provides power to the headset and connects the mic to the radios.  What I was thinking of is a Y-cable connected between the airplane DC powered jack and each of the two mics that has a switch to change the mic connection from the headset mic to the mask mic, or a cable that is hard wired connecting the DC powered jack on one end and the headset and mask mic into each end of the "Y" which eliminates the headset mic.

It may be something I will have to build.

John Breda

[kortopates]

6 minutes ago, M20F-1968 said:

I have the panel mounted David Clark powered headsets and also have a Bose powered LEMO plug and the standard two jack system.  Obviously I can only plug in one headset in rach station at a time, but have a choice of what I can use.  The DC plug provides power to the headset and connects the mic to the radios.  What I was thinking of is a Y-cable connected between the airplane DC powered jack and each of the two mics that has a switch to change the mic connection from the headset mic to the mask mic, or a cable that is hard wired connecting the DC powered jack on one end and the headset and mask mic into each end of the "Y" which eliminates the headset mic.

It may be something I will have to build.

John Breda

No switch is necessary. John above surmised the headset mike might still be active. I don't know because if it is, it never breaks squelch and you only break squelch with the mask mike once you have it one. Nothing more than just plugging the mask mic into the standard mic jack is necessary except for adjusting squelch.

Edited January 1, 2021 by kortopates

[M20F-1968]

Just now, kortopates said:

No switch is necessary. John above surmised the headset mike might still be active. I don't know because if it is, it never breaks squelch and you only break squelch with the mask mike once you have it one. Nothing more than just plugging the mask mic into the standard mic jack is necessary except for adjusting squelch.

Does that mean there is no change in impedance with two mics plugged in?

John Breda

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

Does that mean there is no change in impedance with two mics plugged in?

John Breda

For mine, no.  I have the Bose plugged into its jack and the mask mic plugged into the standard jack next to it. 
-dan

Edited January 2, 2021 by exM20K

[PeteMc]

Most systems should be able to handle the two mics with no issues.  And the mics are designed to pick up close proximity sounds, which is why you really need to have the mic in front of your mouth.  So even if they both go active, ATC should really only "hear" you talking through the mic in your mask. 

And if you have a newer Audio Panel, you may even have some noise cancelling built in to the overall system.  So you'll hear even less from the mic on your headset.

 

[larryb]

My airplane has the Lemo jack and standard mic/phone jacks and a switch to select which mic is active. This is for both the pilot and copilot positions.

[PJClark]

Probably gonna fly a 600 NM hop to Boston area next week and I'll want to head up to FL190 eastbound for the first time.

I got these Precise Flight masks with my cannulas as set two years ago, haven't used one.  With no mic in these is the theory that you can talk through the mask and the headset boom mic will work fine?

How's that actually work? reading this thread it sounds like not real well....

??
PJ

[FlyingScot]

On 12/30/2020 at 12:28 PM, PeteMc said:

I didn't know that much about the MHOxygen systems, so I did some checking. 

According to their sales team, the On-Demand System (O2D2 orO2D1) will save an additional 40% over just using the Oxymizers with the built in system (Mooney). 

Anyone know if this is true?  That's a pretty substantial savings and it might be worth the investment if most of your flights are in the teens or FLs. 

 

I wouldn’t doubt even greater savings. I use the O2D2 and have been amazed at the relative Ox savings over free flow systems. I started using std free flow (built in ox system) and fly regularly in mid to high teens, cannula as well as masks.  I was amazed at how often I was having to refill my tank -  then I switched to the O2D2 and was amazed at how often I didn’t have to refill it. 

Just know the masks/cannulas are not interchangeable between the two types of systems as  @gsxrpilot already said. 

[kortopates]

40 minutes ago, PJClark said:

Probably gonna fly a 600 NM hop to Boston area next week and I'll want to head up to FL190 eastbound for the first time.

I got these Precise Flight masks with my cannulas as set two years ago, haven't used one.  With no mic in these is the theory that you can talk through the mask and the headset boom mic will work fine?

How's that actually work? reading this thread it sounds like not real well....

??
PJ

 

It really doesn't work, that's why we use masks with the built-in mike (at several hundred $'s) and your basic masks for passengers. 

To get that mask to work in any capacity, I think you'll need to cut a hole to allow getting your microphone closer to your lips. 

Boston?? Are you going to the CEF PPP on 9/10-9/12? If so, see you there!

Edited August 29, 2021 by kortopates

[PJClark]

Paul--I figured that couldn't work too well but figured I'd see if I  was missing something before I spend the several hundred $$$.

Don't know what the CEF PPP is...can you elaborate?

I have business at Hanscom AFB/MITRE that week but my wife is thinking about riding along and she'll need something to do if she does.

PJ

[PJClark]

is it just me, or does this Aerox look very nearly identical to the Precise Flight? Well I guess I can see the subtle differences now I have both pics close together.

any hints on size, folks?  I think my Air Force mask was a "long narrow".  I'm thinking "medium" but my face is narrow and my beak is....pronounced (see caricature) 

[kortopates]

You'll definitely feel the issue. Try it out in the plane with your wife on the intercom before you takeoff with just the battery power and you'll get a good idea of the challenges despite no aircraft noise.

There is a Mooney PPP going on the 9/10 Fri through Sunday 9/12 - the weekend after labor day at CEF (Westover Air Reserve Base) about 90 miles from Andover.  When you mentioned Boston next week I was wondering if you where headed to the PPP. 

[PJClark]

How does the wife do with no mic? Or does your wife have a mic mask also, Paul?

And I'm sorry:  what's a PPP?