Fuel tank reseal

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, steingar said:

Of course, if your shop knows anything about Mooneys you can buy the bladders and have them installed right where you are.  With the travel costs and time to get to one of those shops the bladders could wind up being a wash cost wise.  Just a thought.

Cost between the two is similar. The downside of bladders is that they are heavy and in some configurations you lose range. 

[RobertGary1]

14 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

 

Keeping the tanks relatively full and in a hangar, out of the sun, will go a long ways in keeping the sealant pliable. Shock disks not so much

But kind of like driving your corvette around everyday towing a boat. 6 hours of fuel cuts into performance so I have only rarely ever filled my Mooney. 

[cliffy]

All we ever did on Boeings was patch work. Never did a complete strip and reseal. And they were old Boeings with lots of hours.

Some leaked like a sieve. Even had "number of drops per minute" limitations. Had special "crayons" that we rubbed on the leaking rivets to stop the leak for a short period of time. 

 

[mike_elliott]

21 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

But kind of like driving your corvette around everyday towing a boat. 6 hours of fuel cuts into performance so I have only rarely ever filled my Mooney. 

but you sure have patched your tanks more than once, and now need a complete reseal  You don t have to completely fill them, but should keep them at least 2/3s per the expert, Paul Beck.

 

[RobertGary1]

12 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

but you sure have patched your tanks more than once, and now need a complete reseal  You don t have to completely fill them, but should keep them at least 2/3s per the expert, Paul Beck.

 

Not bad for being outside for 45 years though. First reseal. I’m willing to let someone else deal with the repair in 2066 because I don’t fill my tanks. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by RobertGary1

[jlunseth]

48 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Being new to Mooneys really doesn't affect sealant life, but proper care does of course. When Paul does a complete strip and reseal, it will serve one well thru most of ones flying life as you elude to. Paul is very open on how to help keep sealant pliable and able to get maximum life from it. While it is resilient, hard landings do not compromise the integrity, but if the sealant is brittle, everything does. I trust this is what you meant when you said you were a relatively new pilot your landings in the Mooney were less than smooth.

Keeping the tanks relatively full and in a hangar, out of the sun, will go a long ways in keeping the sealant pliable. Shock disks not so much

Well, I agree that being new to Mooneys ipso facto does not affect sealant life. However, being new to Mooneys and making  hard landings does, at least in theory. Thinking back, there was not a lot of that except for a few notable night landings at short field rural airports that were not particularly well lit, back in the day when I had weak incandescent lights. That is what I am confessing to. The tanks did not apparently care much.

My tank strategy has been the opposite of the "keep em full" strategy. I leave the tanks where they were at the end of a flight on the theory that less fuel in the tanks is less weight and more room for expansion, and therefore less stress on the sealant. I know Paul (Weep No More) recommends the opposite, but my strategy appears to be working fine. My plane is hangared and out of the sun except when traveling.

[RobertGary1]

52 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

My tank strategy has been the opposite of the "keep em full" strategy. I leave the tanks where they were at the end of a flight on the theory that less fuel in the tanks is less weight and more room for expansion, and therefore less stress on the sealant. I know Paul (Weep No More) recommends the opposite, but my strategy appears to be working fine. My plane is hangared and out of the sun except when traveling.

Owned mine for 20 years and I share your strategy. Unless you know what mission your next flight will be you don’t want to lock yourself into a fuel load. Also just the big difference in climb. For a short local flight I carry 20 gal and it climbs like a bat out of hell. Why struggle off the runway with 65 gal? 

I’m also unconvinced about the hard landing theory unless the goal is to stretch life out of sealant that is already rigid and cracking. Sealant that is pliable should be fine and our birds only deflect so much. 

[Mark89114]

The other theory is less fuel means less weight on the rubber landing gear disks and supposedly longer life.  I said theory so I am covered.  

I personally don't buy the keeping tanks full theory, my one repaired leak and maybe tiny seepage are all on the bottom which is covered by fuel 90% of the time and my landings are always butter smooth so hard landings aren't causing it......

 

[steingar]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Cost between the two is similar. The downside of bladders is that they are heavy and in some configurations you lose range. 

If you're routinely flying that close to gross maybe you need a different airplane.  I doubt I'll ever miss that 40 pounds.

[RobertGary1]

9 minutes ago, steingar said:

If you're routinely flying that close to gross maybe you need a different airplane.  I doubt I'll ever miss that 40 pounds.

40#=45 min of fuel weight. 

[ArtVandelay]

The other theory is less fuel means less weight on the rubber landing gear disks and supposedly longer life.  I said theory so I am covered.  
I personally don't buy the keeping tanks full theory, my one repaired leak and maybe tiny seepage are all on the bottom which is covered by fuel 90% of the time and my landings are always butter smooth so hard landings aren't causing it......
 

Agreed, and both my lower fuel sensors required overhaul while the outboard ones where good.

[Hank]

11 hours ago, steingar said:

Of course, if your shop knows anything about Mooneys you can buy the bladders and have them installed right where you are.  With the travel costs and time to get to one of those shops the bladders could wind up being a wash cost wise.  Just a thought.

Wet Wings resealed my tanks in 2009 or 10. At the same time, late fall of that year, a friend had bladders installed. Both planes are C models. His cost a full one third more than my reseal . . . . Not what I would call a "wash."

Cost me an additional 12 hours or so roundtrip flight time to his two hours, plus an el cheapo airline round trip for $143 and a night in the hotel because el cheapo only went to FLL two times a week (still half the price of a major airline, and that was half the price of a flight to Minneapolis). But Edison was on time and on budget, and he drove me from FXE to FLL when I dropped off my plane.

[steingar]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

Wet Wings resealed my tanks in 2009 or 10. At the same time, late fall of that year, a friend had bladders installed. Both planes are C models. His cost a full one third more than my reseal . . . . Not what I would call a "wash."

Cost me an additional 12 hours or so roundtrip flight time to his two hours, plus an el cheapo airline round trip for $143 and a night in the hotel because el cheapo only went to FLL two times a week (still half the price of a major airline, and that was half the price of a flight to Minneapolis). But Edison was on time and on budget, and he drove me from FXE to FLL when I dropped off my plane.

12 hours of flight time is greater than the longest trip I've taken in the Mooney.  Probably cheaper if you can do it in one day.  Hit wx or mechanical delays and costs can increase considerably. I suppose if you're IFR you can punch through more than I can, but you can still get stuck.  I'm glad it worked out for you though.  I never seem to score el cheapo airline tickets, and when I get washed up the hotels can get spendy.

[steingar]

17 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

40#=45 min of fuel weight. 

How often do you fly at full gross?  For me it's 1x.

[mike_elliott]

17 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

The other theory is less fuel means less weight on the rubber landing gear disks and supposedly longer life.  I said theory so I am covered.  

I personally don't buy the keeping tanks full theory, my one repaired leak and maybe tiny seepage are all on the bottom which is covered by fuel 90% of the time and my landings are always butter smooth so hard landings aren't causing it......

 

You are correct, the extra weight of the fuel is harder on the shock , over time.  Per Paul Beck, There were a few years around the 1999 time frame as a direct result of cost cutting measures, the factory's sealant process was less than effective at attaining maximum life, leaving most of them in this vintage having to have been resealed early or needing to now in spite of any proper maintenance procedures, landing techniques, or alignment of the stars. 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

12 hours of flight time is greater than the longest trip I've taken in the Mooney.  Probably cheaper if you can do it in one day.  Hit wx or mechanical delays and costs can increase considerably. I suppose if you're IFR you can punch through more than I can, but you can still get stuck.  I'm glad it worked out for you though.  I never seem to score el cheapo airline tickets, and when I get washed up the hotels can get spendy.

6 hours down [overnight fuel stop at my brother's], and a lunch pitstop on the way home to meet a fellow C owner near the halfway point.

My longest trip was WV to WY, two nights enroute each direction, almost 25 hours flying time. Wife enjoyed it a lot!

[RobertGary1]

5 hours ago, steingar said:

How often do you fly at full gross?  For me it's 1x.

Often enough that I don’t want to permanently lose the option. 

[Sandman993]

41 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Often enough that I don’t want to permanently lose the option. 

Haha... the better question is, how often do you fly over gross?

I took this chick up one time... she was overly gross. I told her my name was Anthony from up northeast way.

[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, steingar said:

How often do you fly at full gross?  For me it's 1x.

Regularly... every time we travel in the Mooney which is often.

[squeaky.stow]

2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Regularly... every time we travel in the Mooney which is often.

And in a few weeks you will be able to do it and carry and extra 230 lbs! 
I am envious. 

[kortopates]

And in a few weeks you will be able to do it and carry and extra 230 lbs! 
I am envious. 

Exactly, that's two more super models in the back and their luggage - explaining why Encore pilots are luckiest of them all!



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[Sandman993]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:12 PM, kortopates said:

Exactly, that's two more super models in the back and their luggage - explaining why Encore pilots are luckiest of them all!



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I always use my real name when we’re talking super models unless one gets pregnant... then it’s back to my old New Jersey alter ego.

[Lancer11A]

Well, I've decided to take on the task to strip and reseal the fuel cells myself.  The wait list is too long at Weep No More(14months) and my tanks are linking at a rate that is not airworthy.  Attached are a few pictures.  Man, there must have been 4 to 5 patch jobs.  Take a look.  So far I've been at it for 2 weeks off and on.  I do have a day job.  Will keep all posted on progress.

 

Paul

M20C

N9242M

D62F5171-6035-49FE-A43E-D1392146C049.heic 3CC04975-1807-4B2B-9924-DA7ACDE22D56.heic A4ADBD0C-ACFA-4E9B-ABBE-889BC7D00F48.heic D1BA11BB-5068-453F-BA2E-B99073964CE2.heic 260235D4-156F-46AC-840C-1613A52FB674.heic 2B6EA93E-0952-4148-9F29-EF237AFDA249.heic 3AAB2C6B-5ADF-449A-AF4A-6CA6578075E2.heic

[mike_elliott]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:12 PM, kortopates said:

Exactly, that's two more super models in the back and their luggage - explaining why Encore pilots are luckiest of them all!



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Thats only 1 'bama supermodel,,, maybe. You know how many USC cheerleaders you can get into a Mooney, Encore or not? Zero,,,,nadda... Unless we can convince Jonny, David, Kevin^2 to build one that burns 50+ GPH of jet A it will probably never happen...

[carusoam]

@Lancer11A,

We’re going to need to help you with your pic posting skills...

There has got to be a better way...

-a-