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Welcome aboard Rick!

The G and the F are technically different planes... as are the Ovation and the Acclaim...

Looks like you may have some homework to do...

The M20G has an O360...

It would need the IO360 to qualify for the upgrade to an IO390...

Know that you can update your plane using an STC from Lasar...

But that is for the IO360...

You might want to check in with Lasar regarding their STC...

Or Lycoming who can sell you an IO390...

Or ask your mechanic the best route to get to where you want to be...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

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Given there are very few G’s out there I doubt such an STC would ever happen.
There is an STC to convert a C to an E I.e. O-360 to IO-360, so it’s not impossible. That was with LASAR IIRC, so if you have buckets of $ you could ask them about the possibilities or Paul Lowen.
Certainly cheaper to trade up to a F.


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The less expensive in the short run, but hurts on resale, is have plane changed to experimental category.  I knew an A&P that allegedly did that with an old C that had gear up landing damage and as he put it, "bought from insurance company, pulled out the two garmin GTN's sold them and that paid for the plane and most of the repairs".  Any rate he put in the engine from a PA-236 Dakota (235hp).  Beefed up the firewall, cage and some minor cowl modifications and Dakota 3 blade prop.  It sounded awesome on takeoff, accelerated well, climbed like homesick angel.  He barely changed the empty weight one all was done increased power about 30%.  The only two drawbacks to me was the airframe was still designed for a 189mph VNE and he could blow through that well before 75% power.  Since was experimental I have a feeling he viewed that number as a "reference" and not a rule.    The other was it still had 48 gallon tanks, so at 75% power around 3.25 hours flight time.  So the C he transformed would do a 600 nm trip in about 4.25 hours on 40 gallons and the modified would not have legal reserves to do that trip.  Even if it did, it would only get there 45 minutes quicker on around 45 gallons.  Maybe a bit more time and fuel savings since it got to efficient altitude MUCH quicker.  I'm trying to find pictures so I can get the registration number.  I 'd love to know where he and the plane ended up and if he ever added tanks and made the aerodynamic drag reductions he wanted to.  He wanted to see how fast he could get it.  His goal then was to compete with TLS performance at a fraction of the cost.  Knowing him, he's put a turbine in it by now.  LOL

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9 hours ago, Tcraft938 said:

The less expensive in the short run, but hurts on resale, is have plane changed to experimental category.  

Yes, but that would not be experimental exhibition category that allows you to fly it almost with no restrictions. Most likely would be R&D with flight test programs etc...  I would be interested to hear more.

I just know of Piper Mojave (with brand new TIO-540s) that got written off due to heather fire damage. Maybe I can get one chap and stick it in front of my M20F. How hard can it be? 

:)

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regarding the engine upgrade.  I have been doing some research just in case i need a rebuild. The stc from lasar says 4 mile an hour increase in speed converting from 0-360 to io-360. The mooney manuals say 157 knot cruise in the f and 147 knot cruise in the g.  I think mooney is pulling our legs about the speed of these planes. Just like my silverado is supposed to get 25 miles per gallon. Its 21 to 22.   And for Lasar to say 4 miles an hour, I believe them. My 1300hr g model actually sits around 140 knots at 24/23 at 5000 which is quit fast i think. Lasar cowl enclosure made a big difference. Further more i read an article where they say the 180hp  O-360 is under rated and the IO-360 is over rated. There may be only a 10 to 12 hp difference. Power flow had an article that i read some time ago, that they had to change the way they piped (down rate ) the O-360 because it brought the H.P to way above the rating of the engine. AS by listening to my rant, I think I just talked myself into staying with the simple, cheap O-360 and get a power flow exhaust for it.     

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6 hours ago, Rick-bond said:

regarding the engine upgrade.  I have been doing some research just in case i need a rebuild. The stc from lasar says 4 mile an hour increase in speed converting from 0-360 to io-360. The mooney manuals say 157 knot cruise in the f and 147 knot cruise in the g.  I think mooney is pulling our legs about the speed of these planes. Just like my silverado is supposed to get 25 miles per gallon. Its 21 to 22.   And for Lasar to say 4 miles an hour, I believe them. My 1300hr g model actually sits around 140 knots at 24/23 at 5000 which is quit fast i think. Lasar cowl enclosure made a big difference. Further more i read an article where they say the 180hp  O-360 is under rated and the IO-360 is over rated. There may be only a 10 to 12 hp difference. Power flow had an article that i read some time ago, that they had to change the way they piped (down rate ) the O-360 because it brought the H.P to way above the rating of the engine. AS by listening to my rant, I think I just talked myself into staying with the simple, cheap O-360 and get a power flow exhaust for it.     

Sales materials are always or have always been optimistic...

Laws of physics stay the same...

Find the flight reviews of what your are thinking about...

Some things really work on some Mooneys... but, Mooneys over time, also got improvements...

So...improving the intake works, improving exhaust flow works...

But, if the factory did that already... no after, market device can double the benefit...

 

Double down on what leads to speed increases... things that bring aerodynamic efficiency work...

Adding hp doesn’t work economically....

Adding HP does improve T/O roll and climb rate...

Some people buy M20Cs and keep them forever... aka forever-planes...

Choose the Mooney that works for you...

After a life time of ownership, some M20Cs become some pretty powerful planes... around the world.

PP thoughts about the right Mooney, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/21/2020 at 9:15 AM, Tcraft938 said:

The less expensive in the short run, but hurts on resale, is have plane changed to experimental category.  

You could do primary category which is legal and much easier to do then Experimental R&D.

The IO-390 on a G would be tough because you would still be limited to the lower gross weight. From what I have heard from RV guys that put the IO-390 on over a similar angle valve IO-360 its about a 20 pound increase. You also have to factor in insurance as the 390 makes it a high performance airplane even if its only 10 hp increase.

Personally, I considered a G when looking for a Mooney, a G with 200 HP is pretty much an E with more leg room and more range. You improve climb performance but you still have a very low max gross of 2525.

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On 12/24/2020 at 11:28 AM, Rick-bond said:

regarding the engine upgrade.  I have been doing some research just in case i need a rebuild. The stc from lasar says 4 mile an hour increase in speed converting from 0-360 to io-360. The mooney manuals say 157 knot cruise in the f and 147 knot cruise in the g.  I think mooney is pulling our legs about the speed of these planes. Just like my silverado is supposed to get 25 miles per gallon. Its 21 to 22.   And for Lasar to say 4 miles an hour, I believe them. My 1300hr g model actually sits around 140 knots at 24/23 at 5000 which is quit fast i think. Lasar cowl enclosure made a big difference. Further more i read an article where they say the 180hp  O-360 is under rated and the IO-360 is over rated. There may be only a 10 to 12 hp difference. Power flow had an article that i read some time ago, that they had to change the way they piped (down rate ) the O-360 because it brought the H.P to way above the rating of the engine. AS by listening to my rant, I think I just talked myself into staying with the simple, cheap O-360 and get a power flow exhaust for it.     

Realistically, my F is 145-150kts at your 5000’ power setting.  Depends on weight.  So you might gain a few knots but not much.  I’m in for a new cylinder right now (chrome flaked off) and a new one is $2500.  OH quotes are ~$2k.  I’d stick with what you got instead of upgrading to angle valve cylinders.

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