my pilot license is going to expire while Im on a flying vacation

[MikeOH]

Hate to say it, but without some valid certificate in your possession I think you're out of luck; what's in the FAA on-line database isn't going to cut it.  If your DPE took your old plastic, and the paper temp expires, you are NOT legal to be PIC.

Sounds like that link for temp certs may be your best bet.

Good luck!

[PT20J]

Interesting question. I asked my DPE friend. Here's what he told me. 

1. The temporary certificate supersedes the previous one rendering it void. This is signified by the DPE punching a hole in it. 

2. The temporary certificate expires in 120 days and then you have nothing. The temporary can only be reissued by the FAA and not by the DPE.

3. The airman registry does not get updated until the new certificate has been processed, but that's neither here nor there because 61.3 says you must possess or have readily available a pilot certificate and you don't if the temporary has expired and the earlier certificate has been invalidated by punching a hole in it. 

So, you really need to get the certificate issued or the temporary extended to be legal. No one will ever know unless you have an accident or violation. Then there could be an issue with the FAA, and since insurance companies will go by the language of the policy, you would likely find yourself uninsured.

Skip

[carusoam]

Sooo... a summary...

1) The pilot has gained a great skill...

2) in doing so, he gets a temporary certificate to make him feel comfortable...

3) Comfortable that the DPE is going to destroy his old one...

4) There must be a black market for old PPLs... so the DPEs have a quaint way of asking for it back...

5) The FAA documents department runs like molasses on a cold day, when it’s a good day...

6) With Covid, all kinds of things got delayed... 

7) AOPA used to have a list of all the normal delays that were acceptable to keep flying...

8) Check with AOPA to see if this is really a non-issue while the FAA struggles to catch up...

9) Most important... check with your insurance... keep the conversation short and to the point... keep notes... they probably record your conversation...

10) Expect that the delay is not your fault... you have done everything required to have the new license in your hands... it just hasn’t happened yet... because of an act of God...

11) If God wanted us to have nice flashy plastic licenses... wouldn’t the minister hand them directly to us in church? We would have had it last Sunday, easily... 

12) If you get stopped for speeding... or ramp checked... by the time you get through the pages of the basic med paper work... they aren’t going to want to see anything else...

PP thoughts only, most of the topics I read that were covered in this thread...

Best regards,

-a-

[Culver LFA]

You all are going about this the wrong way, just go take another checkride and get another temporary ticket. Why stop at commercial?

[thinwing]

11 hours ago, Culver LFA said:

You all are going about this the wrong way, just go take another checkride and get another temporary ticket. Why stop at commercial?

the only quicky rating i could possibly do in less than 2 weeks is powered parachute or maybe pvt gyro ad on.This all started from my ballooning cert!!Which was just doing as a lark..

[thinwing]

12 hours ago, PT20J said:

Interesting question. I asked my DPE friend. Here's what he told me. 

1. The temporary certificate supersedes the previous one rendering it void. This is signified by the DPE punching a hole in it. 

2. The temporary certificate expires in 120 days and then you have nothing. The temporary can only be reissued by the FAA and not by the DPE.

3. The airman registry does not get updated until the new certificate has been processed, but that's neither here nor there because 61.3 says you must possess or have readily available a pilot certificate and you don't if the temporary has expired and the earlier certificate has been invalidated by punching a hole in it. 

So, you really need to get the certificate issued or the temporary extended to be legal. No one will ever know unless you have an accident or violation. Then there could be an issue with the FAA, and since insurance companies will go by the language of the policy, you would likely find yourself uninsured.

Skip

that pretty much sums it up Skip....

[cliffy]

Maybe a new view point is in order

Not valid after 120 days may be because they don't want 2 "valid" licenses out there at the same time. Ya think? And NOT that you don't qualify for the certificate? And not that they have revoked your certification? 

You passed the check ride and you qualified for the license. You were given a "paper" copy until the plastic arrived. The plastic, if it was mailed but lost in the mail, is still valid.  You still qualify for the license. Its not that you don't have the requisite certification. The "proof" (the actual plastic) is all that is missing. You still have the "paper" license even if it says its out of date. They haven't pulled your new license.  If a ramp check were done what's the worst that could happen? You show your "temp" license and all your paper work in trying to get the "proof" and lay it back on them. You've done your due diligence. You can do no more. But keep trying. And keep the paper trail of contacts. What if you had a job flying commercially? Are you required to be out of work until 'they" get their act together? I think not. 

I'd keep flying and keep trying to get the plastic. The problem is there's and not yours. 

As far as insurance goes- you have a valid certification on file at the FAA, it has not been revoked by the FAA. 

The problem is more akin to driving but leaving your license at home. your still a licensed drive you just don't have the proof in hand. Anyone from the FAA or LEO can get the information after a little investigation. As can the insuranc company.

[thinwing]

Cliffy..i tend to agree with you...but will the FAA inspector/ntsb/insurance co agree ,if god for bid im having a bad day...the real problem ,is so far none of the FSDO offices i have left emails and phone messages with ,have bothered to respond....they are ones impowered to grant an extension....

[Culver LFA]

23 minutes ago, thinwing said:

the only quicky rating i could possibly do in less than 2 weeks is powered parachute or maybe pvt gyro ad on.This all started from my ballooning cert!!Which was just doing as a lark..

Already have a Multi?

Seriously, I would find out what the delay is with the FAA.  Before making phone calls you can go here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/amsrvs/Logon.asp

and then on the right column under Certificate select Request Verification of Certificate Privileges.

They will send you an immediate email with what their records currently show for you as far as pilot certificate and medical.

[bfreelove]

I would suggest calling Oklahoma City directly if you haven't tried that already.  I had a similar issue getting any response from my FSDO recently, but was able to get what I needed straight from the main office. 

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/contact_airmen_certification/

[cliffy]

There is also an Ombudsman in the FAA for problems that haven't been addressed by the rank and file. I've used them and the response was almost immediate. 

But I do think its being looked at backwards, You haven't lost your privileges' Its just a paperwork issue

Again what would happen if you left your wallet at home and went flying and had a ramp check? Not much but it would be on you because YOU left your license at home. Now its there issue.  

[PT20J]

I know of at least one airline pilot with a valid ATP that was violated during an FAA inspection because he had left the certificate at home. The rule is pretty clear.

According to my DPE friend, any FAA person that deals with pilots can extend the temporary. If it were me, I would call everyone in the FAA that I could get a phone number for. See if your DPE has any direct contact numbers. AOPA probably has direct contacts, and I’d try to get them to help. Forget email; you ‘re probably message 1574 down in someone’s inbox.

Good luck,

Skip

[thinwing]

41 minutes ago, bfreelove said:

I would suggest calling Oklahoma City directly if you haven't tried that already.  I had a similar issue getting any response from my FSDO recently, but was able to get what I needed straight from the main office. 

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/contact_airmen_certification/

thanks for this suggestion...waited on hold for 10 min.,explained the problem,agent basically granted a 60 day extension of old cert till they work out issues with new cert.They emailed an authorization in 2 min...problem solved ..thanks all...k

[MooneyMitch]

Congratulations!  Stress relieved..... enjoy your Christmas travels !! 

[Seth]

If there is an accident/incident on the expired temp CPL, the cause of the accident will be flying without a valid licenses.

-Seth

[carusoam]

Yay!

Let’s reconvene in 50 days to discuss where the heck the plastic card is now... 

Happy holiday air travel!

Go MS!

best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

oh just a follow up....guy from my local FSDO called late friday afternoon.....i said I hadnt heard back from you after a week and a half of emails/phone messages so I called Oklahoma City and got the extension I needed.He than apologized for taking so long to return message and asked if I had by any chance complained to Oklahoma city?

[cliffy]

As I've postulated on another thread (Trutrak) there are ways to get the FAA to do something when one office has slowed down.   Congrats on the extension and now your real one will show up Weds.  :-) :-)

[thinwing]

Ha Ha...i recall a movie...where the character says"we have to protect our phony balony job"!!