News on Insurance

[tls pilot]

 

From AOPA Article

There is some potential good news on the horizon for pilots.

 

After months of close coordination with AOPA, AssuredPartners Aerospace, AOPA’s strategic insurance partner, has teamed with an A-rated aviation insurer that has pledged to explore options for pilots up to age 79. This development could provide more options to those who fly single-engine, piston-powered aircraft with fixed, retractable, or tailwheel gear configurations, and having six seats or fewer and with hull values as high as $500,000. BasicMed is also scheduled to be an approved underwriting element, giving some pilots potential relief from burdensome insurance-related medical requirements. 

This insurer will also offer potential coverage options for younger and newer pilots.

“While general aviation has experienced a boon in this challenging year, reducing insurance pressures has always been on the front burner for AOPA,” said Baker. “We are excited about an opportunity to provide much-needed insurance relief to some pilots. This is an example of how we listen closely to our members and advocate on their behalf. We will continue to explore more options.”

The present aviation insurance market has been hard on many in the industry. Aging GA pilots have been faced with fewer options, as insurers have been scrutinizing their underwriting criteria for pilots over the age of 65. 

While some pilots may be getting partial insurance relief, it’s important to note that this will not apply to all aviators. In addition, annual flight training or safety pilots may be required, depending upon the complexity of the insured aircraft. Hull deductibles also will increase with aircraft value. “This is a welcome change in the tight insurance market,” Baker said. “But there is more to be done. We continue to work with other underwriters to bring relief to more pilots.”

“We’ve been working hard with AOPA to develop options for those pilots that are experiencing difficulty in finding necessary coverage and reasonable premiums,” said Bill Behan, AssuredPartners Aerospace CEO. “By bringing another choice to the table, we are aiming to allow more capable pilots to stay in the skies.” 

“They say age is just a number, and nowhere is that more applicable than in general aviation,” added Baker. “This is one step forward in having pilots judged by their abilities and experience, and not just their age.”

[Nokomis449]

While I'm still a few years from the age mentioned, I have a comment about AOPA's insurance offerings.  I've been an AOPA member for about 20ish years and just about every year I give them the opportunity to give me an insurance quote (IFR, clean driving and flying record with no incidents, actions or infractions).  Without fail, they're the highest.  This year, my current insurer went up about 30% to renew.  AOPA provided a quote that was up 50%, and ironically it was with the same insurance company.  Thankfully my independent agent shopped me around and gave me an option that was only about 10% higher.  My disappointment in AOPA's consistently higher offerings has made me seriously question my commitment to an organization that, per similar opinions around the FBO, has forgotten who they represent.  I would hate to know that AOPA was my only hope when it comes to obtaining insurance (at any age). 

[carusoam]

It is nice to see AOPA tackling this...

This hurdle is getting bigger and bigger lately...

There are plenty of MSers in the age bracket mentioned.

Hope to get there myself one day, with my forever-plane...

-a-

[RobertGary1]

Aopa themselves does not sell insurance. They do allow one company to use their name. But it’s aopa in name only. 

[MooneyMitch]

Lots of caveats, variables and generalities mentioned in the article.

Is this possibly AOPA attempting to promote itself? (They’ve been known to do that occasionally)!

I’d like to think hopefully.........let’s see how this plays out....... time will tell.

[RobertGary1]

31 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

Is this possibly AOPA attempting to promote itself? (They’ve been known to do that occasionally)!

What do you mean?

[GeeBee]

You do serious damage to your agent and underwriter relationship when shopping around and asking the same underwriter to quote multiple agents. Then you are placing the underwriter in the position of either favoring one agent over another, getting the underwriter angry at having to respond with quotes for something he has already quoted. Believe me, the underwriter will tell your agent you shopped him him with other agents. Equally so, you want the underwriter to know you. Jumping from one to the other does not help that process.

I prefer a relationship of trust with the agent I select to get me the best deal. If I don't think he/she is doing the job, I leave them for another after interviewing multiple candidates. If I do that, I notify the underwriter that I have left agent A for agent B and that he is to deal with agent B for my business. I guess I am lucky in that I had a good friend who owned a large insurance agency that did commercial clients. I asked him one time if he wanted to attend an NBAA insurance seminar. Turned out, he knew more than the NBAA presenter about aviation insurance. He even went so far as to one time arrange a lunch with an Aviation Risk Manager from Lloyds of London which was very enlightening. He taught me how to interview candidates to be my agent and it has served me well over the years. Questions like, how much do you write with given carriers a year, how (in detail) do you deal with the underwriters. I also learned what the term "good paper" means which is why I rarely go with the lowest quote, but bias the quote against the quality of the paper being written to me.

As for AOPA, they are no different than AARP or BoatUS or any of the others. They are advocacy with an insurance agency. In the case of AARP they are insurance first advocacy second. That is not to say they are bad. They often get very good rates because they have a large base of "customers" for the underwriters to access. I have both BoatUS insurance, underwritten by GEICO and AARP health underwritten by United Health Care. Both are very good rates. Remember however, they are agents, and they get their "cut". Remember that when dealing with these types of agents. 

 

[RobertGary1]

If you're getting different quotes from different agents something is wrong. They're all quoting the same few underwriters using the same quoiting system.

 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

 

As for AOPA, they are no different than AARP or BoatUS or any of the others. They are advocacy with an insurance agency. In the case of AARP they are insurance first advocacy second. That is not to say they are bad. They often get very good rates because they have a large base of "customers" for the underwriters to access. I have both BoatUS insurance, underwritten by GEICO and AARP health underwritten by United Health Care. Both are very good rates. Remember however, they are agents, and they get their "cut". Remember that when dealing with these types of agents. 

 

AOPA Insurance was sold to Assured Partners. Not associated with AOPA today.

-Robert

[GeeBee]

Except they kick a piece of their commission to AOPA. Not sure it is a distinction with a difference.

 

[RobertGary1]

26 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Except they kick a piece of their commission to AOPA. Not sure it is a distinction with a difference.

 

They are a "Strategic Partner". Like Sirius Radio and Aircraft Spruce.

 

-Robert

[MooneyMitch]

12 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

What do you mean?

I meant that AOPA is a business and they need to promote themselves in order to stay in business.  They do do that.  I'm hoping that there is some positive financial relief progress for us geezer types, no matter where it comes from. 

[Nokomis449]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

You do serious damage to your agent and underwriter relationship when shopping around and asking the same underwriter to quote multiple agents.

Then they shouldn't send me unsolicited emails asking for my business.  They should solicit my agent instead; I'm just playing by the rules they present to me.  BTW, I didn't "ask the same underwriter...", I requested a quote from AOPA's agent.  Whatever backstabbing they do behind the scenes is up to them, but in this case they only shot themselves in the foot once again.  A few years ago I spoke with the AOPA agent on the phone and he asked me what I was currently paying.  I told him, and he admitted up front that there's no way he could "even get close".  I thanked him for his honesty and told my agent what he said.  I've had my current agent for many years, and every year he gives me a few options and tells me which pays claims faster, which he'd avoid, who's going under, who bought who, etc.  He's never steered me wrong and AOPA (or Assured Partners or whoever is AOPA's flavor-of-the-year) is the only other company I've contacted for a competing quote, and only out of stubborn loyalty to the old AOPA I knew.  It's a comforting feeling to know that my agent has my back, and I let him know what other quotes I've gotten.  I think it keeps us both honest.

 

[GeeBee]

If you understand the business, you should know that a broker/agent is going to solicit the same underwriters. It is too small of a business for that not to happen. 

 

[RobertGary1]

46 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said:

I meant that AOPA is a business and they need to promote themselves in order to stay in business.  They do do that.  I'm hoping that there is some positive financial relief progress for us geezer types, no matter where it comes from. 

But aopa doesn’t sell insurance. They sold the naming rights to “aopa insurance” a few years back. 

[ragedracer1977]

Oh... My AOPA/assured partners experience has been nothing but bad.  I sold my C model and bought a twin.  I bought the twin beginning of July.  Same day my insurance expired on the Mooney. I tried for 3 weeks to get a quote for changing aircraft from AOPA/AP.  My "broker" with them was completely unresponsive, so I went with another broker.

AOPA finally called me back the day the before the policy expired.  I told the "broker" I didn't have time to deal with an unresponsive company, I had gone with someone else, and they needed to not renew my policy. 

2 months later I start getting phone calls that I'm late on my bill.  The bi$@h had renewed it anyway. I never signed anything.  We've been arguing about it for 3 months.  They finally came back and said they would prorate it to when the new guy bought the Mooney.  However, they would only base that on the date it shows as registered on the FAA website.  Which is the date they processed it, not the date it happened.  They wanted to bill me for an extra 45ish days.  

I've now sent them a bill of sale and the declaration page of the new owners policy showing its been effective since July, just a few days after my original expiration date.

In other words, we're STILL arguing about this almost 6 months later.  I'll never use them again, they're inept and unresponsive. Imagine if I had a claim???

My new broker is a pilot, and his hangar is just a few rows over from mine. He can't hide from me.  

Edited December 15, 2020 by ragedracer1977

[GeeBee]

Tell them you are not paying them anything and you are turning their conduct over to your state insurance commissioner. They'll run like a scalded dog. They do not want to get dinged on their license.

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

29 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

 

2 months later I start getting phone calls that I'm late on my bill. 

AOPA pre-binds their renewals and you have to tell them not to renew otherwise they just treat you like they are renewing.

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

But aopa doesn’t sell insurance. They sold the naming rights to “aopa insurance” a few years back. 

I apologize for not being clear.  

My point is, is the AOPA article merely a story to promote Assured (kick back to AOPA from Assured selling insurance to AOPA members), or it seriously an effort industry wide to address giant premium leaps for us geezers? 

 

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

AOPA pre-binds their renewals and you have to tell them not to renew otherwise they just treat you like they are renewing.

I did tell them.  The dummy employee who acts like a broker didn't do her job.

[RobertGary1]

3 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I did tell them.  The dummy employee who acts like a broker didn't do her job.

Probably got her commission.

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

3 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

I apologize for not being clear.  

My point is, is the AOPA article merely a story to promote Assured (kick back to AOPA from Assured selling insurance to AOPA members), or it seriously an effort industry wide to address giant premium leaps for us geezers? 

 

I don't think it will affect the premium much...I think they're just looking for homes for people who have lost coverage.

[Nokomis449]

7 hours ago, GeeBee said:

If you understand the business, you should know that a broker/agent is going to solicit the same underwriters. It is too small of a business for that not to happen. 

 

Yes, I understand.  The underwriter might quote the same price to each agent, but as I experienced just recently the quote itself can be wildly different by the time it gets to me.  After all, you don't expect Assured to pay the kickback out of their own pocket, do you?

[carusoam]

There are a couple of services that AOPA is good at...

Especially, when you are doing things that are less than familiar to you...

They do a lot of hand holding when you are buying your first plane... they stand by you while you are buying your next plane...

Some things happen so fast, it is good to have a partner there to make sure all the dots and crosses show up in the right place...

When it’s your second year of your second rodeo... there are going to be much better ways to get exactly what you want without any hand holding... 

When you are 80+ as some MSers are... talk about memory issues.... this is where the insurance companies start forgetting who you are...

I am a big fan of relationships in business... but, doubling the insurance rate the day a pilot turns 80 or dropping him as a client... sounds more like ageism... and a crappy business plan...

I’m also a big fan of the Mooney pilot that turned 100yrs old the other day...

That’s another 20years of crummy elevated insurance bills... 

PP thoughts only, not an insurance guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

When you are 80+ as some MSers are... talk about memory issues.... this is where the insurance companies start forgetting who you are...

I

I wonder if there is actuary evidence that supports the higher rates.