donkaye Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 hours ago, daytonabch04 said: I leave my prop at cruise setting (2200) in the decent and then full forward for landing...am I wrong? No problem doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJC Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Which 2005 are you looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJC Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) I think we are looking at the same Black/Silver...The biggest issue for us is the useful load. Do not really need FIKI and the AC is from what I understand mostly unusable. As family grows, this will stop working due to weigh gain of the little one. Thinking the useful load is high 800's low 900's?. Thank you. Freddy Edited December 17, 2020 by FJC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 21 hours ago, apenney said: Is needing to back off MP on descent considered a normal finding then, even with normally functioning density and differential controllers? I don’t need to back off the MP in descent, my only adjustments are decided on which flight considerations I want that day, from LOP at 13 GPH or faster at 18 GPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 When I had the Bravo, I would back it down a couple of inches prior to beginning initial decent, not because of the DA controller holding MP, but to keep her out of the yellow and begin a gradual cooling. While not a big shock cooling evangelist, as an engineer I know rapid heating or cooling doesnt do anything any favors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted December 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 10:29 PM, FJC said: I think we are looking at the same Black/Silver...The biggest issue for us is the useful load. Do not really need FIKI and the AC is from what I understand mostly unusable. As family grows, this will stop working due to weigh gain of the little one. Thinking the useful load is high 800's low 900's?. Thank you. Freddy Lots of people claim the ac’s don’t work well in the Mooney. I have owned four with ac and that hasnt been my experience at all. Two friends of mine with ac, that I have flown with, were not aware the vent was on while they were running the ac, which you won’t notice on the ground much, but once you’re moving it mixes outside air and the ac feels like it isn’t working. once I showed them this, they stopped complaining. the useful on 809BW is 840ish, which isn’t bad for both fiki and ac. It’s also about the UL of the ultra acclaim with one or the other. the autopilot in that one however, is a real problem child. Look at the logs... I suspect wire chaffing somewhere. Really no reason for that to be out as many times as it is in the logs, and ironically, as the plane sits today it’s out for repair again. She also had light hail damage on the ailerons. otherwise it was in very fair shape for its age. Only other consideration is the time on the engine. That’s 100k right around the corner... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Schllc said: Lots of people claim the ac’s don’t work well in the Mooney. I have owned four with ac and that hasnt been my experience at all. Two friends of mine with ac, that I have flown with, were not aware the vent was on while they were running the ac, which you won’t notice on the ground much, but once you’re moving it mixes outside air and the ac feels like it isn’t working. once I showed them this, they stopped complaining. the useful on 809BW is 840ish, which isn’t bad for both fiki and ac. It’s also about the UL of the ultra acclaim with one or the other. the autopilot in that one however, is a real problem child. Look at the logs... I suspect wire chaffing somewhere. Really no reason for that to be out as many times as it is in the logs, and ironically, as the plane sits today it’s out for repair again. She also had light hail damage on the ailerons. otherwise it was in very fair shape for its age. Only other consideration is the time on the engine. That’s 100k right around the corner... I had an STEX 55X in a Piper Mirage that no one could figure out. After I flew it to Mineral Wells and had STEC look at it back then, they had it fixed the same day. Not my favorite autopilot of all time but it was much better after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJC Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Schllc said: Lots of people claim the ac’s don’t work well in the Mooney. I have owned four with ac and that hasnt been my experience at all. Two friends of mine with ac, that I have flown with, were not aware the vent was on while they were running the ac, which you won’t notice on the ground much, but once you’re moving it mixes outside air and the ac feels like it isn’t working. once I showed them this, they stopped complaining. the useful on 809BW is 840ish, which isn’t bad for both fiki and ac. It’s also about the UL of the ultra acclaim with one or the other. the autopilot in that one however, is a real problem child. Look at the logs... I suspect wire chaffing somewhere. Really no reason for that to be out as many times as it is in the logs, and ironically, as the plane sits today it’s out for repair again. She also had light hail damage on the ailerons. otherwise it was in very fair shape for its age. Only other consideration is the time on the engine. That’s 100k right around the corner... Yeah...I have to go with one or the other (AC or FIKI) due to the weight limitations of having both. The very lowest I can go with is around 910lbs useful. I didnt comb through the logs and also noticed the 100k right around the corner which I wont be able to swing if I gotta go 230k in to start. Perhaps the Bravos are priced with expensive overhaul in mind as compared to the Ovations? There is an Ovation in Oregon with 2300 hours on original engine for 130k which would be attractive if I had the time to wait for overhaul and avionics upgrade (has original stack...my instructor wants redundancy, and WAAS GPS which I agree with). Who knows, maybe it has another 200 hours left alla Mike Busch doctrine? But there is no getting away from necessary upgrades. Search continues! Freddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Jodice Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Schllc said: Lots of people claim the ac’s don’t work well in the Mooney. I have owned four with ac and that hasnt been my experience at all. Two friends of mine with ac, that I have flown with, were not aware the vent was on while they were running the ac, which you won’t notice on the ground much, but once you’re moving it mixes outside air and the ac feels like it isn’t working. once I showed them this, they stopped complaining. the useful on 809BW is 840ish, which isn’t bad for both fiki and ac. It’s also about the UL of the ultra acclaim with one or the other. the autopilot in that one however, is a real problem child. Look at the logs... I suspect wire chaffing somewhere. Really no reason for that to be out as many times as it is in the logs, and ironically, as the plane sits today it’s out for repair again. She also had light hail damage on the ailerons. otherwise it was in very fair shape for its age. Only other consideration is the time on the engine. That’s 100k right around the corner... Are Acclaim engines that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted December 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: I had an STEX 55X in a Piper Mirage that no one could figure out. After I flew it to Mineral Wells and had STEC look at it back then, they had it fixed the same day. Not my favorite autopilot of all time but it was much better after that. Stec has had this one three times. I’ve owned two planes with this autopilot and never had these kinds of issues. Something is causing the head and trim servo to go out, and replacing them buys time, but obviously doesn’t address the root of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted December 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Tim Jodice said: Are Acclaim engines that much? I have never had the pleasure of changing one, so I can’t say for sure, but from what I’ve been told it’s pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidv Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Tim Jodice said: Are Acclaim engines that much? I can tell you it's about double the cost of the NA 550G brand new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 16 hours ago, Schllc said: Only other consideration is the time on the engine. That’s 100k right around the corner... https://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/engines.asp?searchParm=TIO540AF1B&catID=33 A rebuilt TIO-540-AF1B engine through AirPower is $67,276, but this Bravo has a first run engine, less than 20 year old, so Lycoming will sell you a rebuilt for the price of an overhauled engine*, $60,776. Add the remove and re-install labor and the new engine mounts, etc, etc, and you're between $70,000 and $75,000. * https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/2017-04-18 Loyalty Price Matrix.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schllc Posted December 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: https://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/engines.asp?searchParm=TIO540AF1B&catID=33 A rebuilt TIO-540-AF1B engine through AirPower is $67,276, but this Bravo has a first run engine, less than 20 year old, so Lycoming will sell you a rebuilt for the price of an overhauled engine*, $60,776. Add the remove and re-install labor and the new engine mounts, etc, etc, and you're between $70,000 and $75,000. * https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/2017-04-18 Loyalty Price Matrix.pdf Somewhat aligns with what I was quoted for the engine. I rounded up for all the other, “while we are here’s”, as well as the unforeseen. Better to set an expectation that leaves room for pleasant surprises. But that’s just me, to each their own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 TCM used to post their various engine prices... online. From new, factory Reman, and OH... The basic reman engine for the IO550 several years ago was 35. Adding a TopProp was about 15. R&R roughly 10... Getting out the door was a mid 60s kind of price... For the wonderful acclaim... start with that, because the only differences would be related to the different compression ratio pistons and crank... then add the exhaust system.... a pair of TNs, and wastegates, and MP controller... and probably many expensive exhaust system parts to connect all the bits and pieces on the hot side... For a moment, I really wanted to turn my O’s engine into an acclaim powered machine... the one missing piece of paper (STC) saved me a boat load of AMUs... Time wise... the engine was mostly built, finishing touches took two weeks... the prop took a few months to complete... I went with the Acclaim’s thin blade TopProp... I also selected the The (N)’s cylinders... so I have a lighter engine than the (G)... unfortunately, as good as the lighter, fancy cooling finned (N) is... they have a bit of cracking history that follows them in other planes... Close your eyes while looking at the price for just a moment... dig into the specs for each plane... 1) The O3 powered Ovations are the best NA plane available... lightly loaded, off the ground in 800’ and climbing out at 2k’pm... crossing the ground easily and affordably at 175kts... 2) The Acclaim with 310hp is spectacular... JoeZ is still connected to MS... if you have some deep questions for a guy with first hand experience... ask Joe... the real difference...same T/O roll... same initial climb... but... keep on climbing to the FLs.... set your FF properly to keep TITs where they need to be... crossing the ground at over 200kts... 3) The Bravo... Came first! Lycoming, single turbo, with a regular CR of a TC’d engine... engine and prop will be in the same neighborhood between the two Continental models... Many Bravo owners around here are in the aviation business... kind of a good sign that people in the know fly Bravos... so... if you are not in the aviation business... Ask Dan... the accountant... Dan’s been flying the Bravo since the days before the Acclaim was born... hmmm... if it makes sense for an accountant to own a Bravo... look into getting the four blade MT... Power, efficient, good sound quality... on a few planes around here... mostly for the guys who like the FLs... climb and thin air is great for four blades... Now go back and look at the prices...because you have too. The Fin administrator said so... Old Bravos, and O1s have been basking in the glory of new /updated color screens... and GTNs... Their old BK stuff reached their limits... they did well... no hard feelings when you add decades newer technology...the old BK stuff isn’t dying off... mostly digital, and built incredibly tough... except for a few of the older color displays.... that also got outdated by large screen GTNs... PP rambling only... not a plane sales guy yet... I’d go Acclaim! Because, your financial administrator doesn’t have my phone number... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 Actually the Bravo is much closer to a TN engine than the Acclaim. The Bravo uses a CR ration of 8.0:1, much closer to the 8.5:1 that a TN and normally aspirated engine would use. The Acclaim uses 7.5:1, typical of turbo's - the only TN aspect about it was the baseless Marketing by Mooney of it being TN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 Hmmm... Discerning customers relish the truth.... Competitors love unwinding untruths... Disappointment arrises when the customer gets something different than he expected... Does Continental promote the TN name on the TNIO550? For discussion purposes.... The IO550 for the Ovation shows...(from the POH) CR = 8.5:1 Theoretically, how much more hp could we expect if we took the NA IO550 to 10:1 compression pistons... and supplied the necessary FF to go with that? ( I know an MSer that would be interested... ) Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, carusoam said: Does Continental promote the TN name on the TNIO550? No, its a TCM engine designated as a TSIO-550-G. TCM never uses the term turbo normalizing to describe it. Only Mooney marketing did. Pretty much all TN's engines are STC's with Tornado Alley the primary vendor. Such as Turbo normalizing the TCM IO-550 for the SR22. Cirrus actually offered both kinds of turbo's for the SR22 - the Tornado Alley IO-550 TN (8.5:1) and the TCM TSIO-550 turbo engines (7.5:1) Vitatoe Aviation also TN's another IO-550, the -P used in the Cessna 210 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Tim Jodice said: Are Acclaim engines that much? Invoice from air power was $86,000 when I saw one last Spring. To be fair, though, CMI ships a complete package with exhaust and all accessories new or rebuilt. Field overhaul quote may not be so comprehensive. -dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.