Bravo HP increase STC

[Schllc]

I was wondering if from the hundreds of years of Mooney owners someone may know if, and if not why, there hasn’t been an stc for HP increase for the Lycoming in the bravo?

the engine is derated from 350hp, and actually produces that HP in other airframe applications. 
couldn’t they bump it to 325 in the Bravo?

Aside from an approval of an STC sounding daunting given the bureaucracy of the FAA, I don’t know what’s involved but it’s a simple an inexpensive upgrade on the continental.  Why isn’t that an option on the lycoming?

 

[carusoam]

Go to the Lycoming web site and see what is available...

Or go direct to Rocket engineering and discuss the number of STCs they can sell....

Find out what power plant was used in the Mooney Liquid Rocket... it was a 350hp engine...

A few M20Ls became Liquid Rockets...

310hp of the O3 is pretty magical... compared to the 280 of the O1...

Lycoming has had a few updates in the last 30 years.  A 310 hp engine that can climb to the flight levels would be a great update for a Bravo with a run out 270hp engine...

Or.... how about putting the Acclaim’s engine in a Bravo?

Writing the STC would be a piece of cake for somebody as skilled as RE...

New engine mount, and cowling available direct from Mooney...

Probably a 100amu scale project... X the minimum order quantity set by RE....

Go for it!

PP thoughts only, not a director of STC sales....

Best regards,

-a-

[exM20K]

15 minutes ago, Schllc said:

the engine is defeated from 350hp, and actually produces that HP in other airframe applications. 
couldn’t they bump it to 325 in the Bravo?

It’s not derated.  It is what it is, a fine, reliable, and breathtakingly expensive power plant, with very little in common with the Navajo or Mirage engine.  Closer relative is in the TB series of Socata planes 

-Dan

Edited December 12, 2020 by exM20K

[Niko182]

16 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I was wondering if from the hundreds of years of Mooney owners someone may know if, and if not why, there hasn’t been an stc for HP increase for the Lycoming in the bravo?

the engine is defeated from 350hp, and actually produces that HP in other airframe applications. 
couldn’t they bump it to 325 in the Bravo?

Aside from an approval of an STC sounding daunting given the bureaucracy of the FAA, I don’t know what’s involved but it’s a simple an inexpensive upgrade on the continental.  Why isn’t that an option on the lycoming?

 

its normally a 260HP engine boosted to 270HP. The Navaho engine as dan stated is completely different.

[aviatoreb]

Then how about put a real Navajo engine on the bravo?

[Davidv]

I recently heard that some people have turned their bravo up to 2700 RPM.  Not exactly legal, but the takeoff performance is apparently pretty amazing. 

[exM20K]

12 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Then how about put a real Navajo engine on the bravo?

TIO540A1A Turbo Navajo 540# dry 310 HP

TIO540 J2B chieftain 548# dry 350 HP

TIO540AF1B Bravo 493#

Might need a third battery in the tail for balance .

Suspect the J2B is a lot bigger, too.  It sure looked huge on the test stand at GAMI

Also, Mooney has long been leery of too much HP overwhelming the tail.  The 310 HP Ovation and acclaim were an STC, and Mooney waved off on buying the Acclaim STC.  

-dan

[PaulM]

The AF1B engine is the largest thing they could get in a mooney cowl.  It doesn't not have the same cylinders as the larger TIO540's. So it is not derated, but the max HP that system can make, and even then the AF1A burned the valves, so the Bravo mod was required.    Just the tubocharger is twice as large on the big engines.    Take a look at a de-cowled Navajo,  The engine and systems are enormous. 

If you need to go faster than a Bravo, get an Acclaim.   +20kts. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, exM20K said:

TIO540A1A Turbo Navajo 540# dry 310 HP

TIO540 J2B chieftain 548# dry 350 HP

TIO540AF1B Bravo 493#

Might need a third battery in the tail for balance .

Suspect the J2B is a lot bigger, too.  It sure looked huge on the test stand at GAMI

Also, Mooney has long been leery of too much HP overwhelming the tail.  The 310 HP Ovation and acclaim were an STC, and Mooney waved off on buying the Acclaim STC.  

-dan

All the chat about a turbine Mooney - that has been my thought - besides strengthening the airframe for flutter margins, something would need to be done with the tail to allow enough authority during slow take off speeds and p-factor.

[carusoam]

It’s not only tail / rudder size...

Sure my M20C ran out of rudder in full slips... it had the short rudder....

An M20B will run out of rudder even faster, as its rudder throw is smaller...

And that is without adding the throttle and torque and whirling slip stream into the equation...

 

The biggest thing I see with the added hp is covered by training... to get a better feel for the plane...

Like all Mooneys... The Go-around with full flaps, trimmed for landing.... is a hand full.... when pouring on the coals...

The more hp, the more the rotation towards the sky.... causing a bit of an unsustainable attitude.

 

So... if you go with more hp.... be good with your check lists and recognition that there is a time for using less than full hp...

 

I haven’t noticed much of a difference in ground roll directional control... the rudder trim is set the same and tracking the centerline seems to be as good as can be...

Now... add an oversized turbo into the mix... and wait for the Surprise kick in MP as the turbine spins up... expect that the tires may even brake free... 

310 hp is capable of climbing out at 2kfpm...   with a pair of TNs... this is a fun way of getting to cruise altitude...

PP thoughts only, not a plane designer...

Best regards,

-a-

[philiplane]

The 270 HP Bravo engine is closest to the Piper Aztec's 250 HP TIO-540-C1A. Pushing either engine more than 10 extra HP will cause even more overheating problems. 

Lycoming does add 10 HP by increasing some engines from 2575 RPM to 2700. It depends on crankshaft counterweights, and the propeller installed.