Found my aileron restriction

[flyingchump]

I thought I'd pirep a problem I just found on my 66E.  I recently realized that I couldn't roll the yolk to the right as far as I could to the left...  I thought that maybe the rigging was off or aileron stops were vibrating the stop bolts loose.  Per the log book, there were 2 rod ends replaced back in February (before I purchased the plane) and maybe that guy goofed up the rigging.  I don't know which 2 rod ends.

So I took off some panels and looked around.  stops were good.  I looked under the panel to see if anything was binding.  Nothing binding.  I then took off the one piece belly and found the problem!  It looks like the johnson bar boot has been piling up and is now restricting the aileron control rods.  It looks like this has been happening for a while... So much for my pre-buy insp and the 11AMU service just finished (not an annual). 

I found that there was a SB for this boot and an NTSB report about someone dropping a flashlight down there and binding the controls...

Anyway.  I was planning on redoing the interior this winter anyway so it will be a good time to change the boot.

Has anyone seen this before?  Any advice?

[Boilermonkey]

Had a similar problem limiting the elevator travel.  After the avionics shop worked on something unrelated I got in the aircraft and dis a control check before stating and found I could not push the elevator past neutral, in fact it was slightly up!    Glad I didn't figure that out during a T/O roll.    Turned out the tech had moved the heating duct work and it was blocking the elevator push rods.   An easy fix on the ground, but deadly in the air.   

[carusoam]

Inviting @M20Doc to have a look...(airleron, interference in the controls)

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

Good catch and I'm glad it didn't cause you any serious problems.

 

"Controls Free and Correct" a line item in all of our pre-runup checklists.  Always do it don't just say it!  Make sure you always to go stop to stop.

 

 

 

 

[flyingchump]

5 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

Always do it don't just say it!  Make sure you always to go stop to stop.

That's exactly when I found it. This was a tricky one to spot.  Usually I'm looking out the windows at the ailerons as I check for free and correct controls.  It really felt like it was hitting the stop so my "touch" sense didn't feel anything that indicated a problem.  It was a visual observation that one aileron lifted just a few degrees farther than the other.  If the sun was on the other side of the sky at that moment I might not have noticed it as all. 

[M20F-1968]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:17 PM, flyingchump said:

 

Anyway.  I was planning on redoing the interior this winter anyway so it will be a good time to change the boot.

Has anyone seen this before?  Any advice?

 

I have a 1968 F model with a Johnson bar.  It is a completely rebuilt and modernized airplane, and of course I have spent a good deal of time thinking about what to do about that hole in the floor.  Everything about this airplane is tight and shoe-horned in.  The Johnson Bar boot is no exception.  Everyone that makes an aftermarket J bar boot does it incorrectly.  I did some research in 2005 with the factory and learned how it was done back then.  I also have the old part from 1968 (I just can not put my hands on it now).

Many people have told me it can not be made from leather, but they were proven wrong as well.  I use thin goat hides, make a pyramid, invert the pyramid so the bulk of it is under the floor, and use either a small cuff (or better yet a rubber O ring) sewn into the boot.  The leather will stretch and keeping the opening in the boot close to the pivot point under the floor is key.  

It was a tricky project with lots of experimenting.

I am making a new one again and can send pics when finished.

John Breda

[Prior owner]

I believe that the vinyl/leather/cloth boot should never extend below the floor. Also, you have excessive play at the upper pivot bolt, above where your aileron center links connect together- you can see the assembly sliding fore/aft on the upper bolt when the links move right-left.

Edited December 12, 2020 by PilotCoyote

[carusoam]

Note for @flyingchump : see Coyote’s observation above...

Might be important to check.

-a-

[1001001]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:09 AM, 1964-M20E said:

Good catch and I'm glad it didn't cause you any serious problems.

 

"Controls Free and Correct" a line item in all of our pre-runup checklists.  Always do it don't just say it!  Make sure you always to go stop to stop.

 

 

 

 

I use a checklist developed by the guy who did my transition training into the Mooney, a retired airline pilot and long-time Mooney flyer.  The controls check happens before engine start for me.  It's a good idea, so that you know early on whether there's a problem, and aren't in a position to take off if you forget it during run-up.

[carusoam]

Why do I wait to be at the runway threshold to box out my controls?

When I could do this in the comfort of my hangar...

Hmmmm....

What could possibly happen between hangar and runway?

 

PP thoughts wondering out loud, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[flyingchump]

Reporting back.

I just got home from a cold day in the hanger.  I had to jack the plane up because the boot was jammed down there...  The top of the boot was only about 1 inch above the floor.  After releasing the Jbar a bit I pulled the boot out and I had no idea it was so long.  After inspection, the boot is ripped in 2 spots and has a hole in another.  Plus I'm pretty sure the skirt of the boot was installed too far aft thus pulling the boot down.  I'll call aero Comfort Monday and get a new boot on order.  Might as well replace that nasty carpet too!

[M20F-1968]

On 12/12/2020 at 5:44 PM, flyingchump said:

Reporting back.

I just got home from a cold day in the hanger.  I had to jack the plane up because the boot was jammed down there...  The top of the boot was only about 1 inch above the floor.  After releasing the Jbar a bit I pulled the boot out and I had no idea it was so long.  After inspection, the boot is ripped in 2 spots and has a hole in another.  Plus I'm pretty sure the skirt of the boot was installed too far aft thus pulling the boot down.  I'll call aero Comfort Monday and get a new boot on order.  Might as well replace that nasty carpet too!

Aero Comfort will only provide a boot that is tall, and risks a considerable amount of material be be between the upright Johnson bar and the wheel well cover.  This is not want you want as the most important function of the Johnson Bar is to put the gear DOWN.  You want to have nothing between the upright bar and the wheel-well, otherwise you will risk not being able to put the gear down.

The Factory produced a Johnson bar boot that is essentially flat, but with appropriately placed darts to allow the hole in the material to be immediately adjacent to the pivot point, which is below the floor.  There should be some stretch, but the fabrication of the boot should not rely on the stretch of the material much.  I should be as wrinkle free as possible.

I am changing my boot now as the original one was made of Euroleather and was ripped and worn.  I have some stretchy leather which I think will be more durable.  The factory used a plastic-like backing, I think to guard against CO.  I am not using that as I am trying to make this as simple and as thin as possible, without resorting to crappy materials.  

John Breda

 

[Nukemzzz]

Just installed this aero comfort boot. The base is synthetic leather. The boot seems to be spandex and the base of it matches the square hole. Has a rope at the throat to close it though I’m not sure how or why as it’s already pretty tight. Seems to work fine  Hope it stays stuck down  I used spray on 3M contact adhesive.

[carusoam]

Looking newer by the day!

The tightness is a defensive mechanism to keep outside air from becoming inside air...

Cold and CO are a bit of a concern some days...

Best regards,

-a-