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COVID19 vaccination invalidating medical?


DXB

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One would hope the FAA doesn't drag its bureaucratic feet more than another week or so on this decision.  Healthcare personnel will likely start having the vaccine available to them in the 3rd week of December, and those among them with an FAA medical, including me, should not have to give up flying legally to get the vaccine.  

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-reviewing-whether-pilots-can-take-covid-vaccine/?MailingID=512&fbclid=IwAR3FVhN0yu3NHkF-26uD0DMLjkJCRUqhmjfzIzKky30EiB2RUBVA1XYETYw

Sorry I realize a political / anti-vax dumpster fire may result from this post. Nevertheless, it's relevant info to share.  

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8 minutes ago, DXB said:

One would hope the FAA doesn't drag its bureaucratic feet more than another week or so on this decision.  Healthcare personnel will likely start having the vaccine available to them in the 3rd week of December, and those among them with an FAA medical, including me, should not have to give up flying legally to get the vaccine.  

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-reviewing-whether-pilots-can-take-covid-vaccine/?MailingID=512&fbclid=IwAR3FVhN0yu3NHkF-26uD0DMLjkJCRUqhmjfzIzKky30EiB2RUBVA1XYETYw

Sorry I realize a political / anti-vax dumpster fire may result from this post. Neverthess, it's relevant info to share.  

Oh man, another thing to worry about.  2020 just keeps handing it out....  I am optimistic though, that the FAA will respond in a timely way.

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The reasons stated by the Federal Air Surgeon are beyond the pale. These are supposed to be men of science and medicine yet they sound like a bunch of anti-vaxxers and the terms in which they describe their objections show little knowledge of mRNA technology. The Administrator should step in here and if they don't give way, fire the lot of them for not only this, but the way OKC is being run.

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Just now, GeeBee said:

The reasons stated by the Federal Air Surgeon are beyond the pale. These are supposed to be men of science and medicine yet they sound like a bunch of anti-vaxxers and the terms in which they describe their objections show little knowledge of mRNA technology. The Administrator should step in here and if they don't give way, fire the lot of them for not only this, but the way OKC is being run.

Can’t say I totally disagree with it given how these vaccines are being  rushed to market. But it does show the conservative( I don’t mean politically)  nature of the FAA. 

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This is not new stuff. It has been used in cancer treatment for years, as early as 1990. You are comparing this technology to old style vaccine where a virus( dead or alive) is used to trigger the immunity catalog. This technology could usher in a new class of vaccines that can have blanket approval based upon the mRNA execution. That is why what the FAA is doing is so egregious. These are doctors, and they should know better.

This video explains a lot in layman terms

 

https://fb.watch/2eeErk8IdC/

 

 

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15 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

This is not new stuff. It has been used in cancer treatment for years, as early as 1990. You are comparing this technology to old style vaccine where a virus dead for alive is used to trigger the immunity catalog. This technology could usher in a new class of vaccines that can have blanket approval based upon the mRNA execution. That is why what the FAA is doing is so egregious. These are doctors, and they should know better.

This video explains a lot in layman terms

 

https://fb.watch/2eeErk8IdC/

 

 

Yes they are Doctors,but I wonder just how up to date the federal air surgeons actually are.My feeling that the whole bunch stopped attending continuing education decades ago  maybe ,because it really isnt reguired for their federal jobs.True ,the vaccines are being rushed ,but at this point,can we as a nation really afford the typical 2 year study for every possible side effect?Most studies Im aware of report the really bad adverse effects show up really early in the study...likely only weeks...I fully expect adverse outcomes for a small percentage of recievers...but that will give  the attorneys something to wail about while the vaccine is saving 90 % of the potential deaths occuring in the ICU s.I note as of this date both moderna and pfiser vaccine have been deployed in the UK.In the end ,its a roll of the dice....get Covid ,no vax ,mild flu like symptons...or end up in ICU with massive cellular lung damage .

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You are correct. One would wonder about their CME, especially given the statements they are making. The Pediatrician noted in the video I posted is more up to date than the Federal Air Surgeon.

My wife is a medical credentialer and when she started looking up the credentials of some of the "famous" doctors who are on the front of this virus, one's you see on TV regularly their CME, and boards are desperately wanting. Worse, is the CDC. If you think about it logically, as you intimated "federal job". In reality why would a really good board certified specialist work at the CDC for a couple hundred grand a year?

 

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55 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

This is not new stuff. It has been used in cancer treatment for years, as early as 1990. You are comparing this technology to old style vaccine where a virus( dead or alive) is used to trigger the immunity catalog. This technology could usher in a new class of vaccines that can have blanket approval based upon the mRNA execution. That is why what the FAA is doing is so egregious. These are doctors, and they should know better.

This video explains a lot in layman terms

 

https://fb.watch/2eeErk8IdC/

 

 

I have been reading about this new category of technologies.  This vaccine strategy and all the investment in it will become the apollo moon shot of vaccinations with many down stream benefits for other vaccines and diseases.  

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2 hours ago, GeeBee said:

The reasons stated by the Federal Air Surgeon are beyond the pale. These are supposed to be men of science and medicine yet they sound like a bunch of anti-vaxxers and the terms in which they describe their objections show little knowledge of mRNA technology. The Administrator should step in here and if they don't give way, fire the lot of them for not only this, but the way OKC is being run.

What I actually wanted to say ;)  There is no FDA-approved vaccine in existence that should invalidate anyone's medical.  Let's hope they are not overthinking and considering setting a bar other than FDA approval, because I strongly suspect any the physicians at the FAA medical branch lack the expertise to do so. 

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That is certainly more optimistic. However I would take issue with the NATA head. 

"John McGraw, v-p of regulatory affairs for the National Air Transportation Association, noted that the FAA has approached the Covid-19 virus, for the most part, as it has other viruses such as the flu. “So far what we’ve heard from the FAA has been consistent with how they’ve treated things in the past,” he said."

Nothing could be further from the truth. The FAA wants a full cardio and pulmonary work up if you have had Covid, they don't do that with the flu.

 

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3 hours ago, DXB said:

What I actually wanted to say ;)  There is no FDA-approved vaccine in existence that should invalidate anyone's medical.  Let's hope they are not overthinking and considering setting a bar other than FDA approval, because I strongly suspect any the physicians at the FAA medical branch lack the expertise to do so. 

I doubt this will be anything other than the Faa declaring good to go but in so doing reserving their imperial right to have maybe made a righteous imperial ruling in some future unrelated scenario.  This one is way way above the faa’s collective pay grade.

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22 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

That is certainly more optimistic. However I would take issue with the NATA head. 

"John McGraw, v-p of regulatory affairs for the National Air Transportation Association, noted that the FAA has approached the Covid-19 virus, for the most part, as it has other viruses such as the flu. “So far what we’ve heard from the FAA has been consistent with how they’ve treated things in the past,” he said."

Nothing could be further from the truth. The FAA wants a full cardio and pulmonary work up if you have had Covid, they don't do that with the flu.

 

Where are these rules? I can’t seem to find them.

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This was discussed in a previous thread. I received this from my AME

""Dear Airmen, We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections. 1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible. 2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA ."

Now I contacted AOPA and they have been in contact with FAA Aeromedical. It seems this is a policy without documentation. I have been trying to run this down for months, and I keep getting "stonewalled" on it. I am considering a FOIA request to get clarification.

 

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12 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

This was discussed in a previous thread. I received this from my AME

""Dear Airmen, We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections. 1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible. 2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA ."

Now I contacted AOPA and they have been in contact with FAA Aeromedical. It seems this is a policy without documentation. I have been trying to run this down for months, and I keep getting "stonewalled" on it. I am considering a FOIA request to get clarification.

To me, that sounds more like doctor-speak for CYA than it is policy.  No statement of policy would drill down into those specifics.  It sounds more like your AME is over-reaching preemptively.

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1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

This was discussed in a previous thread. I received this from my AME

""Dear Airmen, We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections. 1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible. 2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA ."

Now I contacted AOPA and they have been in contact with FAA Aeromedical. It seems this is a policy without documentation. I have been trying to run this down for months, and I keep getting "stonewalled" on it. I am considering a FOIA request to get clarification.

 

I know, or might be related to a certain SWA Captain. He contracted COVID, was terribly sick for about 24 hours. Did not check into the hospital. Got a positive test. Recovered. His employer said 10 days without fever or other symptoms, and he's good to fly. Sure enough, he's back flying the line.

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6 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

The standard of medicine in aviation is about the same as the standard for engines. Their basis is from decades ago. Modern medicine has come a long way. It isn't 1965 anymore.

I prefer NIH medicine wisdom over FAA medicine wisdom.

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18 hours ago, GeeBee said:

This was discussed in a previous thread. I received this from my AME

""Dear Airmen, We have just received notice from the FAA -in regards to Covid - 19 infections. 1) If you were hospitalized because of the virus - They need all medical records from your hospital, all doctors that consulted on your case. A letter from your treating doctor after discharge - a status letter in regards to your flying status, medications , prognosis and on going issues if any. So you will need to make an AME appointment for recheck and bring all the above information with you so we can get you back flying as soon as possible. 2) If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records. Showing care, medication and your current status as to flying and over all health. Again an appointment with your AME for recheck and to get all your paperwork into the FAA ."

Now I contacted AOPA and they have been in contact with FAA Aeromedical. It seems this is a policy without documentation. I have been trying to run this down for months, and I keep getting "stonewalled" on it. I am considering a FOIA request to get clarification.

 

"If you tested positive and required care at home - we need your private doctor records"   WTF does that mean anyway?!  "Care" meaning you took some Tylenol and drank some Gatorade? Maybe they'd also like my records after recovering every nasty URI I've gotten over the years?  I wouldn't seek any medical attention after a positive SARS-CoV2 test unless I got short of breath - that would likely lead to hospital admission. Otherwise there wouldn't be any "private doctor records" to share.  Contrary to the repeated  and ongoing sensationalist media portrayals, the vast majority of people have zero lasting impairment even after significantly symptomatic COVID19 cases. And if you have lasting impairment after any acute illness, then seeking AME guidance is both common sense and already mandated by other regulations. 

It's nice to know that once my cognitive ability has declined to the point that I can no longer practice medicine, I could likely still find work with the FAA to help their medical bureaucracy write useless, moronic rules to help justify its own existence.

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On 12/7/2020 at 5:58 PM, GeeBee said:

Maybe, but AOPA has related to me similar issues across the nation. The problem is you have to report any visits to medical professionals, then that opens the can of worms

I suspect you are correct that similar issues have been happening to others, but that is just as likely to be a statement about the common mentality of medical professionals than any statement of FAA policy. 

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31 minutes ago, steingar said:

I think the FAA has to wait for approval from the FDA.  I don't think the FAA folks want to be in the business of vaccine approval.

The quotes above make it seem that the FAA is already in the business of vaccine disapproval . . . . .

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