Rustler Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 My one-of-a-kind 1981 M20K is now for sale. The sale is being handled by Gafford Aero, San Marcos, TX, and Ken or Michael Medcalf has the information. It can be seen at https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/198755197/1981-mooney-m20k-231-piston-single-aircraft The reason I'm selling primarily has to do with the insurance quagmire we find ourselves in. I've been flying since 1957, have never and an accident, incident, or claim. In two years my insurance has gone from $1100 to $2800, with a promise from the only company that would quote that it would increase next year. The virus hasn't helped, either. If you are interested in 414MS, Ken or Michael will give you my number to have any questions answered. Thanks for your interest. 1 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 Ughhhhh! Not another one.... I’m placing a call to my insurance guy... Who is growing up fast.... @Parker_Woodruff is 50% older today than when he first got here... (more or less) Parker is a numbers guy... he is probably tallying the number of Established Aviation Gentlemen that are running out of insurance options... There has got to be a better solution than to raise the costs so much the clients just go away... (no MBA required for this!) I haven’t seen any more accidents for the aged pilot population than for the unaged pilot population... Write your AOPA/congressman.... Best regards, -a- Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 Unfortunately my best option was to tell Michael to go to Avemco for the best pricing. It's a rough market for sure. I think $1100 was an unprofitable point in the market, but I understand the recoil at the price increase. And yes...about 55-60% older than this pic...I've since upgraded to married but downgraded with no plane and also downgraded with geographic cost of living... 1 Quote
Urs_Wildermuth Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 I seem to see a lot of insurance issues recently in the US. What exactly is going on there? Looks to me as if insurance is becoming one big issue for GA in the US, where more and more folk hanging it up due to unreasonable pricing or not being able to get insurance at all? Don't the insurances want the business at all? Normally that is what is behind outpricing any serivce. Parker, I've given your name to a guy who bought a Swiss C182 or 210 (can't remember) and was on the way to ferry it to the US... in this context, a lot of thanks for what you are doing helping people who get in trouble because of this. 1 Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Urs_Wildermuth said: I seem to see a lot of insurance issues recently in the US. What exactly is going on there? Looks to me as if insurance is becoming one big issue for GA in the US, where more and more folk hanging it up due to unreasonable pricing or not being able to get insurance at all? Several years of bad underwriting came to a head - three carriers left the market in 15 months and now everyone is making money so they get very selective on risks they want. Of course, it's also been really good for the FlightSafety type organizations. Now corporate flight departments have to send their SICs to school rather than just tell their PIC to find a warm body who happens to be multi-engine rated to fly right seat in the G200. 1 Quote
Mcstealth Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said: Unfortunately my best option was to tell Michael to go to Avemco for the best pricing. It's a rough market for sure. I think $1100 was an unprofitable point in the market, but I understand the recoil at the price increase. And yes...about 55-60% older than this pic...I've since upgraded to married but downgraded with no plane and also downgraded with geographic cost of living... Who the heck is that. Quote
Rustler Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Posted November 30, 2020 Never thought I'd say this, but in all fairness to the insurance guys, these rates might be closer to the raw actuarial tables than previous rates were. I wonder if players like the airlines weren't providing a subsidy for our rates in a time when no large payouts were extant for a prolonged period. Then come the 737MAX hits and a reduction in the numbers of companies willing to play in the market, and premiums aligned accordingly. Parker was a great help in suggesting Avemco. They took me on as a first-time insured with them and my association with them has been as cordial as possible. It doesn't do much to remove the bad taste from all this, but it is what it is. My question, I guess, is what happens when I hit 80. A lot of folks get better with age, but that somewhere got lost in the small-print footnotes. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, Rustler said: My question, I guess, is what happens when I hit 80. A lot of folks get better with age, but that somewhere got lost in the small-print footnotes. Mixed success outside of Avemco. Loss free you will probably be fine with Avemco. This year when it's been required to switch carriers, I've only been successful negotiating physical damage coverage for a C172RG where the pilot is over 80 years old. For an M20K I've only been able to obtain liability only for a pilot at 80+. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, Rustler said: Never thought I'd say this, but in all fairness to the insurance guys, these rates might be closer to the raw actuarial tables than previous rates were. There's very little for actuarial tables, but we can go off of loss ratios. Piston GA did need a rate increase, I just wish underwriting and pricing had stayed in line the last 10 years and there would be less knee-jerk going on where there are masses being non-renewed. Quote
Urs_Wildermuth Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 Thanks a lot Parker for your explanations. Wow. It really appears we are better off here in Europe in this case with insurances. Never heard of such immense problems and the insurers appear eager for the business. It is expensive, yes, but at least nobody gets grounded in this way. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, Urs_Wildermuth said: Thanks a lot Parker for your explanations. Wow. It really appears we are better off here in Europe in this case with insurances. Never heard of such immense problems and the insurers appear eager for the business. It is expensive, yes, but at least nobody gets grounded in this way. I don't know the premiums where you are (I imagine it's quite expensive) and of course EU limits drive the pricing higher; but we have it pretty good over here, all things considered. Quote
tmo Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 Last year, for a M20K, 0h in type, 80h TT, I paid 2130 EUR ($2550) for 65.000 EUR ($77.500) hull and 6.000.000 EUR ($7.168.000) CSL (third party + passenger liability). 10h with instructor required. This year, 40h later, exact same money for exactly the same coverage. Named pilot + instructor; interestingly, towing of gliders / banners / loads is excluded... Wonder if I can get a tow hook for the Mooney... 1 Quote
Mcstealth Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, tmo said: Wonder if I can get a tow hook for the Mooney... Hook them to the relief tube. Got to get real low though 1 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted November 30, 2020 Report Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Mcstealth said: Hook them to the relief tube. Got to get real low though It feels like the insurance companies are hooking us all in the relief tube . . lol 2 Quote
hoot777 Posted December 14, 2020 Report Posted December 14, 2020 I ran into the same issues and was told I had a birthday . I’m now 66 and only one company would write my “smooth” coverage but at a 45% increase. I’m a retired airline captain with over 25k hours about 5k in general aviation . I was not happy but hey I’m still having fun in my Mooney. 1 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 14, 2020 Report Posted December 14, 2020 I saw AOPA mention a brief sentence related to insurance and age of pilots... As something that is on their radar... to be looked into... Kind of how basic med started out... Best regards, -a- Quote
JD in Jersey Posted February 6, 2021 Report Posted February 6, 2021 Is your plane still for sale? Quote
carusoam Posted February 7, 2021 Report Posted February 7, 2021 4 hours ago, JD in Jersey said: Is your plane still for sale? The discussion was about getting insurance as a not so young buck... I think @Rustler may have had some assistance in getting the proper insurance... In case I missed something... I have set a light on his dashboard to stop by here... Best regards, -a- Quote
JD in Jersey Posted February 7, 2021 Report Posted February 7, 2021 Title of thread is: 1981 M20K For Sale :) Quote
carusoam Posted February 7, 2021 Report Posted February 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, JD in Jersey said: Title of thread is: 1981 M20K For Sale Want to have some fun, or do you want to know the answer? Threads don’t automatically get updated... Often, things get sold... the only hint is several people asking... has this been sold..? It has been a few weeks since Rustler has been on line... You can wait for him to answer... Or you can call Ken or Michael as he outlined in the original post... Waiting for a response... might not be your best course of action... How else can I help you? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
Steve Hunyar Posted March 14, 2021 Report Posted March 14, 2021 The link show the airplane is in Johannesburg. Quote
KLRDMD Posted March 14, 2021 Report Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, PeteV said: The link show the airplane is in Johannesburg. No it doesn't. When a Controller link to a specific airplane is gone, as in this case, the link takes you to the generic page for that aircraft type. In this case Mooney 231. All of the Mooney 231s that are currently listed for sale on Controller are on that link now. Edited March 14, 2021 by KLRDMD Quote
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