pkofman Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 M20M on my plane I have a Shadin and the stock fuel gauges on the panel I always time my tank switching and the Shadin does a wonderful job of tracking total fuel flow, total fuel and fuel remaining etc The ship gauges suck! ( very eloquent language ) , they are always giving strange and misleading info . If the tanks are full they may read half , a quarter and then full again The external wing indicators are seemingly correct but they are not for inflight use , obviously not helpful in flight what I would like to do is find a replacement for the ship gauges to confirm the quality of fuel remaining on each side. at the moment i time all fuel tank selections and change tanks religiously at 30 minute intervals to ensure equal quantities but I wonder if there is a way to buy a digital replacement or an "add on" that could augment /replace / or add to the info the shadin provides. thoughts?? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 1. Either replace or overhaul your fuel senders. You can test them with a digital ohmmeter. For overhaul; http://www.airpartsoflockhaven.com/air-parts-services 2. Buy a certified engine monitor, lose all the engine gauges. You’ll lose a few pounds of weight in the process. Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Thwre is also CIES, new digital senders for the tanks. Search around here for here info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 39 minutes ago, pkofman said: M20M on my plane I have a Shadin and the stock fuel gauges on the panel I always time my tank switching and the Shadin does a wonderful job of tracking total fuel flow, total fuel and fuel remaining etc The ship gauges suck! ( very eloquent language ) , they are always giving strange and misleading info . If the tanks are full they may read half , a quarter and then full again The external wing indicators are seemingly correct but they are not for inflight use , obviously not helpful in flight what I would like to do is find a replacement for the ship gauges to confirm the quality of fuel remaining on each side. at the moment i time all fuel tank selections and change tanks religiously at 30 minute intervals to ensure equal quantities but I wonder if there is a way to buy a digital replacement or an "add on" that could augment /replace / or add to the info the shadin provides. thoughts?? Pete I have factory gauges in my M20M which are being replaced right now with a JPI-930. I have found that the ground connection on the individual factory fuel gauge itself is sometimes the issue. Tap lightly on the gauge and see if it comes back to the expected indication. All of my factory gauges work but eventually the all-in-one JPI or EI certified replacements along with the CIES senders are the way to go if you decide to cut a new panel. This will also replace my trusty Shadin fuel totalizer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Probably the least expensive way to get an accurate fuel gauge is to buy an Aerospace Logic fuel gauge: AL Fuel Gauge for use with Cies floats $879 current price. And Cies floats: Cies for Mooney $455 each (4 required) for digital output to go with the AL gauge above. $2699 plus installation. You'll know how much gas you have within a fraction of a gallon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Bob - S50 said: Probably the least expensive way to get an accurate fuel gauge is to buy an Aerospace Logic fuel gauge: AL Fuel Gauge for use with Cies floats $879 current price. And Cies floats: Cies for Mooney $455 each (4 required) for digital output to go with the AL gauge above. $2699 plus installation. You'll know how much gas you have within a fraction of a gallon. That will take care of the fuel but as the other factory gauges go, one by one, it will be expensive and frustrating. If possible, it's better to bite the bullet and replace them all with a JPI-900 or 930 or an MVP-50. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Summary for Pete... 1) Cies floats work really well... 2) The latest from Cies can be used with the old gauges, and better than the old floats for accuracy.... 3) If adding a digital display... the frequency output of the Cies gets you 1 gallon accuracy or so... 4) If you have a newish JPI 9X0... these go well together, out of the box... 5) If you have an oldish JPI that was using variable resistance... upgrading to the frequency type accuracy may require a send back to JPI.... 6) Very few complaints of long term users of Cies floats... 7) There were some complaints early on regarding install details... 8) If you have any questions about Cies... we have the Cies guy around here, @fuellevel 9) If wanting good accuracy, but not ready for a new JPI or EI.... Aerospace Logic is the most direct route... 10) Expect that... The big tanks of the M20M use a pair of floats in each tank... The coolest Bravos... get Cies and EI’s MVP... find Don Kaye’s instrument panel... always updating.... yet these things are still there.... PP thoughts only, not an instrumentation guy... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkofman Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, carusoam said: Summary for Pete... 1) Cies floats work really well... 2) The latest from Cies can be used with the old gauges, and better than the old floats for accuracy.... 3) If adding a digital display... the frequency output of the Cies gets you 1 gallon accuracy or so... 4) If you have a newish JPI 9X0... these go well together, out of the box... 5) If you have an oldish JPI that was using variable resistance... upgrading to the frequency type accuracy may require a send back to JPI.... 6) Very few complaints of long term users of Cies floats... 7) There were some complaints early on regarding install details... 8) If you have any questions about Cies... we have the Cies guy around here, @fuellevel 9) If wanting good accuracy, but not ready for a new JPI or EI.... Aerospace Logic is the most direct route... 10) The big tanks of the M20M use a pair of floats in each tank... The coolest Bravos... get Cies and EI’s MVP... find Don Kaye’s instrument panel... always updating.... yet these things are still there.... PP thoughts only, not an instrumentation guy... Best regards, -a- Thanks for all of that. Btw I have an edm830. Total duel reading only. Not per tank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Pete, Also consider removing and cleaning the old floats.... They are simple variable resistance devices, that probably get dirty/oxidized over time... That is something your mechanic can do pretty easily... If that doesn’t work... the air parts of Lockhaven is a place where a lot of older M20s have sent their float sensors for OH... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkofman Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 3:32 PM, carusoam said: Pete, Also consider removing and cleaning the old floats.... They are simple variable resistance devices, that probably get dirty/oxidized over time... That is something your mechanic can do pretty easily... If that doesn’t work... the air parts of Lockhaven is a place where a lot of older M20s have sent their float sensors for OH... Best regards, -a- Great thoughts Before spending thousands I think I will have them try to clean the floats at annual . maybe the best place to start. I have no shortage of places to spend money on the plane!!!! thank you all for the input 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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