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Landing Height System for Mooney


Microkit

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3 hours ago, donkaye said:

John, that is so far out of the ballpark as to be ridiculous.  They didn't want the job.  I watched Peter do the job and with all the bells and whistles (switch and circuit breaker) it took him 7 hours for my Bravo with no shortcuts.

Awesome thanks Don, I’ll shop around. That’s more like it for a $1,000 part 

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10 hours ago, JohnB said:

Hugely helpful. I got a labor quote of 32 hours for install which seemed high to me. Do you have a mooney this was installed in?

 

10 hours ago, JohnB said:

Hugely helpful. I got a labor quote of 32 hours for install which seemed high to me. Do you have a mooney this was installed in?

Yea M20J....and it really came out nice...go to your mechanic and show him my comments

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Another possibility is that you could just run the cable and let the mechanic do the rest... 

it took less than 1/2 hour to drill the panel, solder the 4 wires and install the module (once the wire was pulled in)

removing the glare shield, finding a useful + power source and an unused ADF or DME wire and neatly make up wiring should be left to a skilled professional...took me an hour and a half largely because my A&P made me route a wire from a breaker and install a panel mounted fuse and a power switch...this process took me 1.5 hours.  I would hope an experienced mechanic would have done this under an hour.  It gets a lot easier if you could find an unused + wire, or fuse off of another circuit...LHS has almost zero electrical load and can be fused with a 1 amp fuse

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12 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

 

Yea M20J....and it really came out nice...go to your mechanic and show him my comments

Excellent. Ill see what they say. I actually asked my mechanic who said since it hooked into the audio system it would have to be installed by an avionics shop (I bet that's just him being too busy) but ill forward your comments to the avioncs shop thanks! Sounds like this is something that a mechanic or an avionics shop could do based on your excellent description of the process. 

Edited by JohnB
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Hangar elf with permission.  4 hrs tops.  Install includes running the wiring (1hr) and cutting the inspection panel (another).  Audio panel interface was another hr or so. OCD was one more.  The OCD hour can be spent filling out logbooks. . 

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On 6/11/2021 at 5:44 PM, JohnB said:

Hugely helpful. I got a labor quote of 32 hours for install which seemed high to me. Do you have a mooney this was installed in?

A 32 hrs quote is very high, as everyone else mentioned.

A Piper Malibu (Pressurized) told us he was charged 10 shop hours, mainly because of the procedure to penetrate a pressurized vessel.

The advantage of Mooney is the top glare shield can be easily removed; giving access to the back of the Audio Panel to insert one pin/wire.  This step should be really fast.  If you look back at Page 4 of this thread; we posted some photos received by a customer showing the installation steps.

Removing the seat and side panel to push wires through is also fast.   2-3 hours in total is a reasonable number.

Many told us they did not take their airplane to a shop; they just get a freelancer A&P that came to their hangar and they both did the installation, cheaper hourly rate than a shop and the airplane stays at the hangar in the event something was missed in the preparation part and must wait for it to arrive (such as the special Garmin wire pin that get inserted into the back of Garmin unit).

You don't need an avionics shop to insert a pin into an audio channel at the back of the intercom unit; an A&P should be able to do that.  The FAA wants a radio endorsed mechanic for equipment that “transmit” such as COM radio.

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7 hours ago, Microkit said:

A 32 hrs quote is very high, as everyone else mentioned.

A Piper Malibu (Pressurized) told us he was charged 10 shop hours, mainly because of the procedure to penetrate a pressurized vessel.

The advantage of Mooney is the top glare shield can be easily removed; giving access to the back of the Audio Panel to insert one pin/wire.  This step should be really fast.  If you look back at Page 4 of this thread; we posted some photos received by a customer showing the installation steps.

Removing the seat and side panel to push wires through is also fast.   2-3 hours in total is a reasonable number.

Many told us they did not take their airplane to a shop; they just get a freelancer A&P that came to their hangar and they both did the installation, cheaper hourly rate than a shop and the airplane stays at the hangar in the event something was missed in the preparation part and must wait for it to arrive (such as the special Garmin wire pin that get inserted into the back of Garmin unit).

You don't need an avionics shop to insert a pin into an audio channel at the back of the intercom unit; an A&P should be able to do that.  The FAA wants a radio endorsed mechanic for equipment that “transmit” such as COM radio.

That is hugely helpful thank you! Especially the part that I don't need an avionics shop to do this. Thank you very much! Ill try to find an A&P in Southern California that's not too busy to do this one. Thanks again

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At the very least....Check with your A&P or avionics shop ..but most will let you pull your own wire....doing so should get your installation to be minimal at both ends.

avionics shops don’t want to pull interiors apart...

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  • 2 weeks later...

I dropped mine off at 6AM today. It is almost 4PM and not done yet and likely will not be done today. I wonder how many hours I'll be billed for . . .

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21 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I dropped mine off at 6AM today. It is almost 4PM and not done yet and likely will not be done today. I wonder how many hours I'll be billed for . . .

Got it back today and it works as advertised. I was billed for more hours than expected but maybe that was what was required.

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On 6/23/2021 at 4:01 PM, KLRDMD said:

Got it back today and it works as advertised. I was billed for more hours than expected but maybe that was what was required.

How many were you billed?

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On 6/13/2021 at 10:32 AM, Microkit said:

A 32 hrs quote is very high, as everyone else mentioned.

A Piper Malibu (Pressurized) told us he was charged 10 shop hours, mainly because of the procedure to penetrate a pressurized vessel.

You don't need an avionics shop to insert a pin into an audio channel at the back of the intercom unit; an A&P should be able to do that.  The FAA wants a radio endorsed mechanic for equipment that “transmit” such as COM radio.

Ok I am having the hardest time getting my system installed. All of the mechanics I have spoken with look at the instructions and say they are unable as it connects to an audio channel and needs to be done by an avionics shop.  ( already told to them what you said it about a non communicating channel to the outside world not requiring a avionics shop, but they won't go for that one) And the avionics shops say it will take a huge number of hours or needs to be purchased by them in order for them to install.  I was going to see if a mechanic can install it but not connect it to the audio, then hire an avionics shop to connect it, but im guessing they wont sign off on a device they didn't install. Oy!

Edited by JohnB
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Just now, JohnB said:

Ok I am having the hardest time getting my system installed. All of the mechanics I have spoken with look at the instructions and say they are unable as it connects to an audio channel and needs to be done by an avionics shop. And the avionics shops say it will take a huge number of hours or needs to be purchased by them in order for them to install.  I was going to see if a mechanic can install it but not connect it to the audio, then hire an avionics shop to connect it, but im guessing they wont sign off on a device they didn't install. Oy!

The audio panel is not a transmitter such as a transponder or a radio.  Secondly, they are not repairing anything inside the unit; adding a pin to the tray connector in the back without removing the tray or other wires does not need an avionics shop; any A&P should be able to do it.  Per our approval; the entire installation including the audio hookup, wiring and access panel cut-out is considered a minor alteration.

Hoping someone here who is near you or at least within a reasonable flying distance can PM you with the name of their installer.   

 

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14 hours ago, JohnB said:

Ok I am having the hardest time getting my system installed. All of the mechanics I have spoken with look at the instructions and say they are unable as it connects to an audio channel and needs to be done by an avionics shop.  ( already told to them what you said it about a non communicating channel to the outside world not requiring a avionics shop, but they won't go for that one) And the avionics shops say it will take a huge number of hours or needs to be purchased by them in order for them to install.  I was going to see if a mechanic can install it but not connect it to the audio, then hire an avionics shop to connect it, but im guessing they wont sign off on a device they didn't install. Oy!

@JohnB where are you located? What audio panel do you have? I bet you’ll get side eye looks if it’s a KMA-20 or KMA-24 because nobody in their right mind wants to make an interconnect with those.  If it’s a PMA >7000 or a Garmin this is *very* *very* straightforward. Probably the simplest “avionics” installation I’ve done. 

I just re-did my wiring and ground to take out a ground loop that I created.  So I’ve effectively done this installation twice.  It’s really simple and straightforward. 

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17 hours ago, Microkit said:

The audio panel is not a transmitter such as a transponder or a radio.  Secondly, they are not repairing anything inside the unit; adding a pin to the tray connector in the back without removing the tray or other wires does not need an avionics shop; any A&P should be able to do it.  Per our approval; the entire installation including the audio hookup, wiring and access panel cut-out is considered a minor alteration.

Hoping someone here who is near you or at least within a reasonable flying distance can PM you with the name of their installer.   

 

Thanks I sent another installer the above message and they're willing to do it. Will need the STC number ill PM you.

 

For those of you who put a switch and a circuit breaker in (which I want as well) where did you get that from? Is there a switch and circuit breaker suggested by Microkit?  If anyone has a link or company that sells a switch and circuit breaker suitable for this device, that would be helpful! Thanks everyone!

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16 minutes ago, JohnB said:

Thanks I sent another installer the above message and they're willing to do it. Will need the STC number ill PM you.

 

For those of you who put a switch and a circuit breaker in (which I want as well) where did you get that from? Is there a switch and circuit breaker suggested by Microkit?  If anyone has a link or company that sells a switch and circuit breaker suitable for this device, that would be helpful! Thanks everyone!

I used the circuit breaker that had been the Trim Switch circuit breaker when I had the KFC 150.  We added a resistor to bring the max current down to 1 amp.  I had an empty switch that had been used to switch inputs when I had the ESI 500 for the other switch.

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23 hours ago, JohnB said:

Ok I am having the hardest time getting my system installed. All of the mechanics I have spoken with look at the instructions and say they are unable as it connects to an audio channel and needs to be done by an avionics shop.  ( already told to them what you said it about a non communicating channel to the outside world not requiring a avionics shop, but they won't go for that one) And the avionics shops say it will take a huge number of hours or needs to be purchased by them in order for them to install.  I was going to see if a mechanic can install it but not connect it to the audio, then hire an avionics shop to connect it, but im guessing they wont sign off on a device they didn't install. Oy!

@JohnBFor a breaker, you can add a pull type breaker to your panel, buy a simple toggle switch breaker, or try to find a Mooney switch (ETA) breaker and adapt as Don did.  All are reasonable options and not that hard to install.  Aircraft Spruce carries the first two.  ETA - good luck finding one.

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Audio panel depends heavily on what panel you have and what you currently have connected.  If there is an open channel, no problem - like and old DME, ADF or AUX channel.

Cutting the wing panel neatly is a bit of a project and takes time to do well.

8 hours should be lots for almost any application - maybe quicker if things go well.

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21 hours ago, JohnB said:

Thanks I sent another installer the above message and they're willing to do it. Will need the STC number ill PM you.

 

For those of you who put a switch and a circuit breaker in (which I want as well) where did you get that from? Is there a switch and circuit breaker suggested by Microkit?  If anyone has a link or company that sells a switch and circuit breaker suitable for this device, that would be helpful! Thanks everyone!

John no STC is required for this item.  It’s a NORSEE device.  Therefore it’s a minor modification.  You can forward this document to your installer.  An IA is not required to fill out a 337 for this item; simple logbook entry will suffice. 
 

https://landingheight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/LHS_NORSEE_Dec_9.pdf

 

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On 7/2/2021 at 10:23 AM, bradp said:

What audio panel do you have? I bet you’ll get side eye looks if it’s a KMA-20 or KMA-24 because nobody in their right mind wants to make an interconnect with those. 

I have a KMA24 audio panel and had no issues getting it installed :rolleyes:

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21 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I have a KMA24 audio panel and had no issues getting it installed :rolleyes:

At least it’s pins with the 24 and not literally globs of solder like my old 20 was. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 7:40 PM, Warren said:

@JohnBFor a breaker, you can add a pull type breaker to your panel, buy a simple toggle switch breaker, or try to find a Mooney switch (ETA) breaker and adapt as Don did.  All are reasonable options and not that hard to install.  Aircraft Spruce carries the first two.  ETA - good luck finding one.

image.thumb.png.7e779fe3eaf8882866e30c3ed6891daf.png

image.png.04e841a0f368bd74101bcf209f11d588.png

image.thumb.png.7b79afc12392dc3d3124e7d78783295b.png

Audio panel depends heavily on what panel you have and what you currently have connected.  If there is an open channel, no problem - like and old DME, ADF or AUX channel.

Cutting the wing panel neatly is a bit of a project and takes time to do well.

8 hours should be lots for almost any application - maybe quicker if things go well.

Warren, Don, Hugely helpful! I would really like the Tyco circuit breaker/ combined switch type, that would be wonderful. @MicrokitWhat amperage is appropriate for your landing system? I was hoping that there was a recommended switch/circuit breaker but I guess that would make it more difficult to get approved as a minor alteration if the switch/ breaker also had to be approved.

 Looking at AC spruce, have to see if it can be installed in my aircraft. Im going in the next few days to see if @donkaye's suggestion will work,  if I have any unused switches from upgrades, but I think I re tasked most if not all of my existing Mooney switches to other things, but Ill check. Thanks everyone. really helpful.

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