Landing Height System for Mooney

[Oscar Avalle]

I ordered a unit for my M20C and I am also waiting to install it.

Oscar

[DonMuncy]

Aren't we all?

[Microkit]

27 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said:

I ordered a unit for my M20C and I am also waiting to install it.

Oscar

 

2 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Aren't we all?

 

We are really still on target (Jan/Feb mark for all pre-orders) .  

We appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.  We have been receiving many photos of installations as we are shipping out every day.    Orders 20th Dec onwards are planned to be shipped first part of Feb, earlier pre-orders are scheduled before that. 

 

[bradp]

@MicrokitNidal are you still honoring the early discount?  Saw some positive feedback ^^^ and I was about to pull the trigger and today I realized that the discount is no longer applied on the cart. 
 

Thanks 

Brad

[Microkit]

35 minutes ago, bradp said:

@MicrokitNidal are you still honoring the early discount?  Saw some positive feedback ^^^ and I was about to pull the trigger and today I realized that the discount is no longer applied on the cart. 
 

Thanks 

Brad

Unfortunately, the launch offer expired two weeks ago (1/1).  That discount was also much higher compared to what bulk & installers are getting now when ordering 5+ units at a time.   Send us an email with your details please.

[larrynimmo]

Mine was ordered on December 11th...and am still awaiting....

[donkaye]

15 minutes ago, mike261 said:

me: december 10. waiting.

I guess they are pretty far behind because I ordered mine on November 21st and still don't have it.

[Microkit]

4 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I guess they are pretty far behind because I ordered mine on November 21st and still don't have it.

We are almost there for all orders.   Everything actually in place, we test each unit across the entire range fully and all pre-orders unit are fully tested, we are just waiting on our mold injection plates for our ABS case.  We did some individual runs of cases to get us moving, especially with some bulk orders and trying to squeeze some personal orders that came after. 

We are going to have all orders prior to Dec 20th to be shipped before the end of the month.  Again, we appreciate everyone's patience and understanding and do email us directly if there is a specific date you may prefer, we can work it out.

Many already replied to our general email shot to all customers regarding the preparation and sent us back the questionnaire we sent.  And many even told us they are not planning to get their shop/A&P to start installation till a specific date as well.    By the middle of Feb, we will have over 100 units extra in stock, with all orders fulfilled.

[hammdo]

Humm, don’t recall getting an email... hammdo at live dot com 

 

@Microkit, can you send one to me again?

-Don

[donkaye]

I thought I'd add a quick post.  My unit came on Monday and I flew over to my avionics shop today to do the install.  My avionics tech is an attention to detail kind of person, so he wasn't able finish the installation today.    I'm going back tomorrow to have him finish up.

Today we located what I think is the best position on the right wing for the Bravo.  He cut the hole, mounted the unit to the plate and re-installed the inspection plate, after making and connecting a long cable to go between the unit and the audio panel.  He pulled the cable through the wing and up to the panel.  The belly and side panel needed to be removed to do this.  This took about 4 hours from 11:00 to 3:00.

Tomorrow he'll do the balance which involves connecting the wires to a circuit breaker, switch, connecting them to the audio panel, performing the setup, and signing my logbook.  The glareshield needs to come off, which is a big production on the Bravo.  I expect another 3 hours to complete the job, but I'll let everyone know tomorrow.  I'll test it and report back.

So, I think it's really about a 1 day job.  I watched him work and he really didn't waste any time.  Except for the GFC 500, Peter did my whole massive upgrade by himself, so I have the utmost confidence in him.  The long interface cable alone took over an hour to make.

One thing I know, when it's done tomorrow, it will work perfectly, and I'm looking forward to testing and using it.

Other pictures have been posted, but I thought I'd show a couple for the Bravo.

[carusoam]

I can sense the excitement...

Electrical engineering gadget, in the hands of the landing professor....

2 for 2!

This is going to be great.

-a-

[Mcstealth]

12 hours ago, donkaye said:

I thought I'd add a quick post.  My unit came on Monday and I flew over to my avionics shop today to do the install.  My avionics tech is an attention to detail kind of person, so he wasn't able finish the installation today.    I'm going back tomorrow to have him finish up.

Today we located what I think is the best position on the right wing for the Bravo.  He cut the hole, mounted the unit to the plate and re-installed the inspection plate, after making and connecting a long cable to go between the unit and the audio panel.  He pulled the cable through the wing and up to the panel.  The belly and side panel needed to be removed to do this.  This took about 4 hours from 11:00 to 3:00.

Tomorrow he'll do the balance which involves connecting the wires to a circuit breaker, switch, connecting them to the audio panel, performing the setup, and signing my logbook.  The glareshield needs to come off, which is a big production on the Bravo.  I expect another 3 hours to complete the job, but I'll let everyone know tomorrow.  I'll test it and report back.

So, I think it's really about a 1 day job.  I watched him work and he really didn't waste any time.  Except for the GFC 500, Peter did my whole massive upgrade by himself, so I have the utmost confidence in him.  The long interface cable alone took over an hour to make.

One thing I know, when it's done tomorrow, it will work perfectly, and I'm looking forward to testing and using it.

Other pictures have been posted, but I thought I'd show a couple for the Bravo.

The kit does not include the cable needed complete the actual install? One needs to manufacture your own cable?

[Mcstealth]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

I can sense the excitement...

Electrical engineering gadget, in the hands of the landing professor....

2 for 2!

This is going to be great.

-a-

Yeah, well, Mr DK will need to be under the hood till roll out for that to be impressive.

[donkaye]

13 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

The kit does not include the cable needed complete the actual install? One needs to manufacture your own cable?

The connector with a small length of each wire attached is included, but since the run length from the unit to the audio panel is different for each airplane, a cable extension is necessary.  My tech conscientiously made that extension, so there would be no issues with it in the future.  That takes time to do it right.

[Microkit]

1 hour ago, Mcstealth said:

The kit does not include the cable needed complete the actual install? One needs to manufacture your own cable?

Both sides of the quick-disconnect are provided.  The one that mates with the aircraft wiring is 8" and prepared either for soldering or crimping with mil-spec shielded two sets of 2-core wires.   We should update the photo of the product to show the 2nd cable provided.

[donkaye]

My installation was completed yesterday afternoon.  With the resourcefulness I have come to expect from Peter Casares at J & R he was able to provide a separate On/Off switch and circuit breaker without removing the glareshield or changing any wiring to the already full inputs to the GMA 35c.  The calibration couldn't have been easier.  It took maybe 10 minutes at most.  I then went flying to test it out.

As expected, it worked as indicated.  The callouts as demonstrated in the videos were at 100', 70', Check gear down, 50', 20', 10', 5', 2', 1'.  The volume on the "Check gear down" was less than the altitude callouts, and when back on the ground I had to increase the volume.  I called Nidal to discuss this, and he was already aware of it.  I'd say within 5 minutes he sent me a file to correct the issue.  How's that for customer service?  All units being shipped in the future will have the new file.

He indicated to me that a couple of people had backed out of the unit because of the delay.  Up front he said when to expect deliveries to start, so it seems to me to be on schedule.  I'd recommend to those that backed out that they give Nidal a call and get back on the schedule.  If you wanted it before, my opinion is you'll be happy with the results.

[hammdo]

I'm happily waiting - I ordered the same time you did Don. My G5 is scheduled in Feb and I'm doing my installation at that time... 

Very nice pirep! 

-Don 

[carusoam]

Great Mikrokit pirep, Don!

Thanks for sharing it.

Best regards,

-a-

[Microkit]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

My installation was completed yesterday afternoon.  With the resourcefulness I have come to expect from Peter Casares at J & R he was able to provide a separate On/Off switch and circuit breaker without removing the glareshield or changing any wiring to the already full inputs to the GMA 35c.  The calibration couldn't have been easier.  It took maybe 10 minutes at most.  I then went flying to test it out.

As expected, it worked as indicated.  The callouts as demonstrated in the videos were at 100', 70', Check gear down, 50', 20', 10', 5', 2', 1'.  The volume on the "Check gear down" was less than the altitude callouts, and when back on the ground I had to increase the volume.  I called Nidal to discuss this, and he was already aware of it.  I'd say within 5 minutes he sent me a file to correct the issue.  How's that for customer service?  All units being shipped in the future will have the new file.

He indicated to me that a couple of people had backed out of the unit because of the delay.  Up front he said when to expect deliveries to start, so it seems to me to be on schedule.  I'd recommend to those that backed out that they give Nidal a call and get back on the schedule.  If you wanted it before, my opinion is you'll be happy with the results.

 

Thank you, Donald, for your great feedback.  Its highly appreciated.  Hope the new audio file is satisfactory regarding the Check Landing Gear voice reminder message.

 

 

[jlunseth]

I have a thought for you. First, I like the system and want to install one this summer.

On the gear warning, I am the contrarian on automated gear warnings like “Check Gear.” I have one, but I do not rely on it to get the gear down. What if the breaker blows, or the warning is muted, or Tower says something, and I have trained myself to rely on it.

But what would be really useful, I think, would be a system that could detect that the gear is not deployed at a set altitude, say 100’, and then issue a warning. Not an electronics engineer, and probably there would be FAA hurdles, but could this not be done by checking with the system we already have, namely the gear lights? In a Mooney the annunciator tells us if the gear is deployed or not. Would it not be possible to tap into that signal, and if we have no Gear Light or a Gear Unsafe signal, we would get a warning such as “GEAR EMERGENCY.” Other models have slightly different gear light  systems. That would be much more useful that another Bitchin’ Bettie routine callout.

[BlueDun]

22 hours ago, donkaye said:

... .With the resourcefulness I have come to expect from Peter Casares at J & R he was able to provide a separate On/Off switch and circuit breaker without removing the glareshield or changing any wiring to the already full inputs to the GMA 35c. ....

It would be wonderful if it made sense for @Microkit to provide/upgrade install instructions to help others avoid removing the glareshield, if possible. Each plane may be a bit different, but there are hopefully enough universals to helps shops and owners save a bit of time. Great opportunity to learn from the first installs. Looking forward to installing mine!

[BlueDun]

I look forward to hearing @donkaye 's PIREP of integrating this into his landing methods as a repeatable process with this additional aid. When he finds he is pulling power, moving into landing attitude based on height, etc. etc. or any other observations and techniques.

[Microkit]

3 hours ago, jlunseth said:

I have a thought for you. First, I like the system and want to install one this summer.

On the gear warning, I am the contrarian on automated gear warnings like “Check Gear.” I have one, but I do not rely on it to get the gear down. What if the breaker blows, or the warning is muted, or Tower says something, and I have trained myself to rely on it.

But what would be really useful, I think, would be a system that could detect that the gear is not deployed at a set altitude, say 100’, and then issue a warning. Not an electronics engineer, and probably there would be FAA hurdles, but could this not be done by checking with the system we already have, namely the gear lights? In a Mooney the annunciator tells us if the gear is deployed or not. Would it not be possible to tap into that signal, and if we have no Gear Light or a Gear Unsafe signal, we would get a warning such as “GEAR EMERGENCY.” Other models have slightly different gear light  systems. That would be much more useful that another Bitchin’ Bettie routine callout.

 

The Check Landing Gear voice reminder is not meant as a primary reminder to lower the gear, we don't want to even call it a warning.   As a disclosure, several factors could make the system not announce it, LHS may skip some announcements depending on descent rate, terrain, trees and other factors.  

If you look at Page 3 of this post, the idea to physically connect to the gear switch to see if it's up or down is possible, pending further check with the FAA later but this could take over a year.    

The LHS unit got its certification without the addition of the Check Landing Gear reminder; we mentioned that we will be adding voice reminders later on, and several members here encouraged us to start the process earlier than what we initially planned.  We went back to the FAA and got the system also approved for “voice reminder” only.    

Pilots should not rely on this or become complacent that there will be a reminder.  Treat is as the LHS reminder may not happen as it is linked to the laser element 70’ trigger mark.  If for any reason the 70’ trigger was rejected by our main watchdog system due to certain parameters, however, “unlikely”, the voice reminder will not be announced. 

[Microkit]

On another forum (*cough Piper cough*) some asked if there is any benefit of this system for small GA aircraft and wanted other members' opinions.  

At the risk of my reply sounding like a sales pitch, I shared at that form some pages of a safety evaluation study we internally prepared just as “food for thoughts”.    

I wanted to share it here as well as some may find it interesting reading material.  

First some benefits, then some actual statistics by AOPA & FAA.  

Runway Width/Length: Being used to a local runway of certain width then visiting an unfamiliar runway that is much wider. Also, visiting a much longer runway can also contribute to visual Illusions of being too high. FAA own document “Spatial Disorientation Visual Illusions” (spatiald_visillus.pdf) explains in detail about the effect of various runway's width/length effects to Visual Illusions.  

Night Landing: Especially for pilots who are not “night current” and need to gain night-currency. Visual Illusions are magnified during night landings.  

Confidence: Many GA pilots do not fly regularly.  

Long Flight: After many hours of a non-stop flight, the pilot eyes are tired from constant sky scanning.  

Stalls during Flare: This is a common issue with many accidents reported as shown below.  

Student Initial Training: Student pilots can benefit from using the system on their first few hours of training, so their eyes can get trained on the relationship between the sight picture and the reported range.  

A report by the AOPA (all reference mentioned) shows 3,303 landing accidents over a 9 years period.  

Then the report breaks down these 3,303 accidents showing 269 accidents for hard landings and more than double (561) of these are flare stalls.  

A different report for training flights shows student solo being a high factor for accidents during the landing phase.  

Hope photos of the report and graph will be clear.

Regards

Nidal 

 

 

 

 

 

[hammdo]

I can't wait to install and fly with this system! 

-Don