Immelman Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) Its time for new hoses to my oil cooler. Could anyone with an E or F with an IO-360-A1A help sort out a little discrepancy? PHT was called and said hoses should be 50 & 53 inches. That sort of looks like it agrees with the Mooney parts manual. But, the hoses on the airplane are tagged as 53 & 54 inches. Oil cooler is in its stock location in the front left cowl. On my airplane, both hoses come out of the accessory case rather high up, above and to the right of the left mag. I see some photos of io-360s with one of the oil lines coming back to the case lower, down below the oil filter. Maybe that explains the length discrepancy? Question: Is this installation correct? Can anyone chime in as to where your oil cooler supply and return hoses plug into the accessory case? In the pic I am pointing to one oil cooler hose, the other thick black hose is the other oil cooler hose. Edited November 14, 2020 by Immelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 Not the bast picture, but mine look like this. Hard to say if it is “correct”, but you do want enough flex to allow movement with the engine. Hard to see, but they go to a common adel clamp. No fire sleeve on mine, but next time I plan to add that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 Of course, the photo orientation randomizer did its thing and it is still a mystery to me how to correct this within Mooneyspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 That is helpful thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 On my 65 E they are 50” & 53” if that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 Get teflon firesleeved (brown) ones and essentially never have to worry about replacing them again (replace on condition--when they are actually failing)... The cost a pretty penny, but it cuts one major hurdle out of annuals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, cctsurf said: Get teflon firesleeved (brown) ones and essentially never have to worry about replacing them again (replace on condition--when they are actually failing)... The cost a pretty penny, but it cuts one major hurdle out of annuals. That's the plan, so I want to get it right! (I think those are 124-J hoses??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, RLCarter said: On my 65 E they are 50” & 53” if that helps Do you know if one goes into the accessory case down low... below the oil filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 We redid the hoses on my '62 c and followed Mooney's SB M20-110 (they were a mess), but I believe it is how the hoses continued to be for the 65E's...different from what yours appear to be. It might help you see how Mooney expected the hoses to be routed. https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_bulletins/sbm20-110.pdf My knowledge of silicon firesleeved hoses is Aeroquip AE466. As to length, I can't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 14, 2020 Report Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Immelman said: Do you know if one goes into the accessory case down low... below the oil filter? IIRC both are at the top of the acc case, I’m down for annual and will check on monday and report back if not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 Was looking for something else and came across this. I’ll be curious on length, I don’t recall from last time I did them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 Thanks, so my hoses go to the same spots. Now why are they different lengths than spec. One of the many mysteries of an old airplane! Thanks for the service bulletin. That appears to be how mine are routed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 One thing that I noticed in the SB is that the C shows that the oil cooler has its input and output situated top and bottom. My E has the input and outlets situated, both, on the bottom. (Inboard and outboard). I would think that this would require a C to have at least one of its lines longer than an E. Did PHT distinguish between a C and an E model? How is your cooler set up? Also, as I recall, one line is straight and the other has a 90 at the cooler....but can’t find a good picture at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 While people are talking about hose lengths, I'd love to know the hose dimensions to replace my brake hoses down the wings. I'd think about getting some teflon ones out there, maybe rotating my calipers at the same time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, cctsurf said: While people are talking about hose lengths, I'd love to know the hose dimensions to replace my brake hoses down the wings. I'd think about getting some teflon ones out there, maybe rotating my calipers at the same time... Brake hose from the brake caliper to the hardline is a dash 4 (1/4”) and is either 33” or 34” depending on serial #. Not sure spending the money for Teflon hoses for brakes would be worth it, but that just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctsurf Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, RLCarter said: Not sure spending the money for Teflon hoses for brakes would be worth it, but that just me I somewhat agree, however I just know that they are out there in the weather and I don't think I want to replace them again anytime soon... I wouldn't be surprised if mine are original. If the plane is still flying in another 60 years, It'll be approximately $5.00 a year... Scarily enough, hoses...even teflon ones...are cheap when it comes to airplane maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, cctsurf said: I somewhat agree, however I just know that they are out there in the weather and I don't think I want to replace them again anytime soon... I wouldn't be surprised if mine are original. If the plane is still flying in another 60 years, It'll be approximately $5.00 a year... Scarily enough, hoses...even teflon ones...are cheap when it comes to airplane maintenance. My IA changed my external brake hoses some years ago, and he took care of that project so I don't have the paperwork with the lengths. That said, mine were original 40+ yrs old. We opted for the 'regular' kind. I look at this in terms of consequence. Losing brakes, or a brake, in a Mooney isn't that big of a deal. Losing fuel or oil is. But if you want to do teflon because you like it, why not? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 66 E. Top one has a 90 degree end. Bottom is straight out. Both go down the tunnel behind the engine and under a heat shield on the bottom of the cowl to the cooler at the nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted November 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Thanks @Nukemzzz! Similar setup on my 66E, but different routing on the top hose exiting the engine, may explain why they are longer than spec. The longer routing is not necessarily better.... I see you have brand new hoses. Would you happen to know their lengths? Mine are aeroquip but the data tag has the length in inches embedded in it... 50, 53, 54... One more question if anyone can help: there is a heat shield under which the hoses pass as they go under the exhaust. Only one of the two hose has an adel clamp under the heat shield on mine. Do others have both hoses clamped there? I also see the old hoses nearly touching the lower cowl where its lip turns up, not good... the clamping job with whatever we replace with needs to be better, I think. Another really dumb question... I will back it up when I see my IA next week... is there an inlet and outlet to our oil coolers or does it not matter which wa the oil flows through? Trying to solve the hose length mystery here... Edited November 15, 2020 by Immelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2020 Report Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Nukemzzz said: 66 E. Top one has a 90 degree end. Bottom is straight out. Both go down the tunnel behind the engine and under a heat shield on the bottom of the cowl to the cooler at the nose. I believe that your Lord mounts are installed backwards. The ringed mount is normally installed on the aft side of the mount on the uppers, and forward of the mount on the lowers. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 22 hours ago, M20Doc said: I believe that your Lord mounts are installed backwards. The ringed mount is normally installed on the aft side of the mount on the uppers, and forward of the mount on the lowers. Clarence No kidding? I wonder why this would be? Is the non-ring bushing bigger to hold the engine weight better? Where could I find this documented to show my shop? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 23 hours ago, Immelman said: Thanks @Nukemzzz! Similar setup on my 66E, but different routing on the top hose exiting the engine, may explain why they are longer than spec. The longer routing is not necessarily better.... I see you have brand new hoses. Would you happen to know their lengths? Mine are aeroquip but the data tag has the length in inches embedded in it... 50, 53, 54... One more question if anyone can help: there is a heat shield under which the hoses pass as they go under the exhaust. Only one of the two hose has an adel clamp under the heat shield on mine. Do others have both hoses clamped there? I also see the old hoses nearly touching the lower cowl where its lip turns up, not good... the clamping job with whatever we replace with needs to be better, I think. Another really dumb question... I will back it up when I see my IA next week... is there an inlet and outlet to our oil coolers or does it not matter which wa the oil flows through? Trying to solve the hose length mystery here... I'll see if I can find pics of the heat shield. Both hoses go under it. I fabricated a large adel to clamp both of them to the shield and to keep them in place. Shouldn't our two 66E's have the same hose routing? Odd. I don't have the hose lengths handy. They would be on a receipt somewhere in my files, not sure if I can locate it. I believe I just called PHT and told them 66E SN 1126 and they sent me the spec'd hoses. I'll see if I can verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 These will probably post sideways even though they are the right way on my phone. Lol See the shield under the muffler. My hoses go under it and are adel clamped to the shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 My guess is you have one hose routed to the side and then down because it was too long. Somewhere along the line someone had a hose that was too long and found a way to make it work by running it to the side and then down. Just a guess though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Pic of the one clamp holding both hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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