New Rocket Conversions Anyone?

[Jsavage3]

Hello M20K Drivers, 

I just spoke with the folks at Rocket Engineering in Spokane about the idea of them doing more Rocket Conversions to our existing K model fleet.  I was told that if he had 20 airplanes lined up wanting the conversions then he'd likely do it, but it would take that many before his costs would be justifiable as doing onesy-twosy just wasn't cost effective for him to open up that option again.  So, I ask, is there any K model drivers who might be facing an O/H soon who would be interested in converting their K to a Rocket?  

I have an 87' 252 now Encore that I'd love to see have more muscle under the hood.  So, I am one.  Are there any others?

If we come up with a list of 20 K model drivers who would be interested in this idea, I believe Rocket Engineering would take our deposits and start up the conversions again.

Anybody else??  Besides the nay sayers.

186 KTAS at 55% power ROP on 14 to 15 gph at 12,000 feet is a real eye opener...and then you've got all kinds of go faster options from there.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Jsavage3
Added picture of a Rocket grin.

[LANCECASPER]

People have strong opinions one way or the other, but I think it's more cost effective to sell your airplane and buy an Ovation (as opposed to converting a J to a Missile) or used Missile or buy a Bravo (as opposed to converting a K to a Rocket) or used Rocket.

Getting 20 Mooney owners to agree all at once to put down well over $100,000+ for a conversion would be a miracle.

[SkepticalJohn]

Strong work @Jsavage3! 

18 to go!

Edited November 11, 2020 by SkepticalJohn

[Tim Jodice]

Assuming a factory rebuilt engine what does it cost all in, hoses, accessories, mounts etc and labor to put a engine on a K? Assume you hand over the keys to a MSC and tell them to call you when it is done? 

[Tim Jodice]

2 minutes ago, SkepticalJohn said:

Oh, and when you're ready to look at the back of my Rocket pulling away from your Slovation, I'll save you a spot on the ramp when I get wherever we're racing to.

18 to go!

A Rocket vs an Ovation? Missle sure but if you going to race your rocket some one needs to bring an Acclaim. 

[carusoam]

Expect cost wise... it is in the ball park of new engine, turbo, and prop... +installation.... and STC.

So in round numbers... it could be less than 100amu. 

Definitely something to consider when the hours pile up on the existing power plant....

Go Rocket Engineering!

When discussing Rockets...I always invite @aviatoreb....

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Expect cost wise... it is in the ball park of new engine, turbo, and prop... +installation.... and STC.

So in round numbers... it could be less than 100amu. 

Definitely something to consider when the hours pile up on the existing power plant....

Go Rocket Engineering!

When discussing Rockets...I always invite @aviatoreb....

Best regards,

-a-

plus new cowl and the custom Rocket dynafocal engine mount and the dual battery set-up in the back, etc, etc.

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

Assuming a factory rebuilt engine what does it cost all in, hoses, accessories, mounts etc and labor to put a engine on a K? Assume you hand over the keys to a MSC and tell them to call you when it is done? 

The Rocket Conversions were all done up in Spokane at Rocket Engineering by Darwin Conrad's crew. https://rocketengineering.com/about-rocket-engineering/

[glbtrottr]

Expect cost wise... it is in the ball park of new engine, turbo, and prop... +installation.... and STC.
So in round numbers... it could be less than 100amu. 
Definitely something to consider when the hours pile up on the existing power plant....
Go Rocket Engineering!
When discussing Rockets...I always invite [mention=8059]aviatoreb[/mention]....
Best regards,
-a-

100amu...and a comparison to the acclaim? Hm. I don’t recall the GW numbers foe the rockets, but...if you figure the today’s cost of a new acclaim versus your K model with a new front power plant, costs make some sense. I don’t think most of us bought our Mooneys fresh out of the factory ...

I went through a similar exercise at a much smaller scale with a utilitarian diesel SUV. I have a very specific set of needs around a large SUV that other vehicles can’t accommodate. New trucks are running upwards of as much as $90k current market and they’re not made anymore. A fresh engine, paint or even interior as needed, and we are good.


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[carusoam]

It’s amazing what combination has to occur to make something like this make sense....

In my case getting the 310hp upgrade would never have made enough sense to spend the dough...

Until one day while I was out of town... the ground reached up and smited my prop...

Suddenly, I was looking at engine, prop, mount, and cowling work...

Finding 20 other people to have the same schedule of events... may be interesting....

It all starts with a good conversation...

Is it really 20 people...

Is it really 100amu...

Is there additional stuff that would make the new Rocket a Rocket II.... a vacuum free Rocket...

 

PP thoughts only, if you talk to the good folks at RE.... ask what they think of putting the PT6 on the Long Body?  

Best regards,

-a-

[Tim Jodice]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The Rocket Conversions were all done up in Spokane at Rocket Engineering by Darwin Conrad's crew. https://rocketengineering.com/about-rocket-engineering/

What about stock?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Tim Jodice said:

What about stock?

A factory rebuilt would probably be about half of a Rocket conversion. The more I think about all that goes into it,  I am guessing in 2020 dollars it would be pushing closer to $150,000.

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

14 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

Assuming a factory rebuilt engine what does it cost all in, hoses, accessories, mounts etc and labor to put a engine on a K? Assume you hand over the keys to a MSC and tell them to call you when it is done? 

Sorry I thought you were asking how much a Mooney Service Center would charge to do the Rocket Conversion.

[aviatoreb]

21 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

A factory rebuilt would probably be about half of a Rocket conversion. The more I think about all that goes into it,  I am guessing in 2020 dollars it would be pushing closer to $150,000.

 

 

I think you are right - I think a conversion in today's dollars would be >100k like maybe 150k.

I love my rocket.

But if I didn't have one and I had a different mooney and wanted a rocket it would likely be more price effective to sell and then buy a rocket.

That said, I am quite attached to all the restoration work I have put into it over 10 years.  So I am a one bird kinda guy who grows attached to his own airframe.  I could see doing it - 

At 100k it would not be absurdly beyond price of the cost of engine replacement due to tbo.  And comparing that to selling and buying, well you keep the airframe you have already invested in, and love, and also you end up with a fresh engine when you are done.

ZOOM!

[Seth]

I don't want to sell my Missile, but if someone offered me well above current value, I might be forced to accept the deal. It's has a brand new overhauled engine, brand new MT four blade prop, and should be ready to fly finally in the coming weeks. I have a big write up to report on it soon.

Financially it makes sense to get a long body rather than convert your J or K. The conversions were done before the long bodies and then afterward for well less than the price of a new long body or few year old long body. Now, a Missile and Rocket sit in this sweet spot of fantastic performance for less than a long body. But do to the conversion, it doesn't make financial sense. Picking one up in good shape, a heck of a bargain!

-Seth

[StevenL757]

17 hours ago, Tim Jodice said:

A Rocket vs an Ovation? Missle sure but if you going to race your rocket some one needs to bring an Acclaim. 

Exactly.  At least make it a fair fight.

[Tx_Aggie]

For the sake of discussion, would they consider Missile conversions as part of the needed 20 or is that separate? Also what would be the cost of conversion in today’s dollars? Thanks!

[Missile=Awesome]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:32 PM, Jsavage3 said:

Hello M20K Drivers, 

I just spoke with the folks at Rocket Engineering in Spokane about the idea of them doing more Rocket Conversions to our existing K model fleet.  I was told that if he had 20 airplanes lined up wanting the conversions then he'd likely do it, but it would take that many before his costs would be justifiable as doing onesy-twosy just wasn't cost effective for him to open up that option again.  So, I ask, is there any K model drivers who might be facing an O/H soon who would be interested in converting their K to a Rocket?  

I have an 87' 252 now Encore that I'd love to see have more muscle under the hood.  So, I am one.  Are there any others?

If we come up with a list of 20 K model drivers who would be interested in this idea, I believe Rocket Engineering would take our deposits and start up the conversions again.

Anybody else??  Besides the nay sayers.

186 KTAS at 55% power ROP on 14 to 15 gph at 12,000 feet is a real eye opener...and then you've got all kinds of go faster options from there.

Wow, not just a pilot side door, but a bonus pilot side luggage access.  Sweet!  

[231LV]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:55 PM, Tim Jodice said:

Assuming a factory rebuilt engine what does it cost all in, hoses, accessories, mounts etc and labor to put a engine on a K? Assume you hand over the keys to a MSC and tell them to call you when it is done? 

I just did it last year... Ly-Con did the overhaul to  factory new specs...TSIO-360 LB...all in it cost about $55k....Ly-Con is one of the top engine overhaulers in the country...Continental Reman was $53k....new Continental ran closer to $63k IIRC...if I wanted Rocket performance, I think I would look at a newer design like Lanceair....

[Tim Jodice]

55 minutes ago, 231LV said:

I just did it last year... Ly-Con did the overhaul to  factory new specs...TSIO-360 LB...all in it cost about $55k....Ly-Con is one of the top engine overhaulers in the country...Continental Reman was $53k....new Continental ran closer to $63k IIRC...if I wanted Rocket performance, I think I would look at a newer design like Lanceair....

How is it? I have heard awesome things about Ly-Con. 

[231LV]

1 hour ago, Tim Jodice said:

How is it? I have heard awesome things about Ly-Con. 

They did a great job...but it took twice as long as they estimated...about 4-5 months.

[kortopates]

They did a great job...but it took twice as long as they estimated...about 4-5 months.

Which is normal right now and probably will be for some time.


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[Tim Jodice]

32 minutes ago, 231LV said:

They did a great job...but it took twice as long as they estimated...about 4-5 months.

That great to hear. Was it on budget? 

[231LV]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:11 PM, Tim Jodice said:

That great to hear. Was it on budget? 

budget on an engine overhaul doesn't really exist...closer to an estimate....of course, the final cost came in higher than I had hoped...more worn out and broken parts raises the cost. A reman would definitely have been faster...simple swap out but I kept my crank which was solid....

[MB65E]

I’ve done 5 engines through Kenny’s shop at Lycon. Absolutely the best. I was right at 5mo on the last one. 
Matt