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GOODYEAR FLIGHT MATE BUTYL TUBE vs Michelin Airstops


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On 11/7/2020 at 8:34 AM, J0nathan225 said:

Seem like I won't be getting Michelin Airstops any time soon (backordered and the date keeps shifting right a month at a time) anyone have good experience with Goodyear's version? 

Funny you start this thread...

Annual last week. I grease the bearings. Re-install a wheel. Valve stem (on my airstop) cracks, whooosh. My old tubes were ~7 years old or so.

I saw what you saw, airstops backordered. Shop lent me a used tube to get me back into my hangar. So I thought I'd try two new goodyear flght mates.

First one went in okay, to replace the broken airstop. Second one: Leaked from valve stem on first inflation. Very frustrating. No external visible defects seen. I am pretty sure I didn't pinch it between the wheel halves, or some other bonehead mistake. Used talc, it looked good. Not happy...

Now I wonder how long the first one will last.

Not too thrilled with the experience. I have never returned anything to Spruce but will be trying to get my money back or a credit for an airstop...

Edited by Immelman
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14 hours ago, Immelman said:

Funny you start this thread...

Annual last week. I grease the bearings. Re-install a wheel. Valve stem (on my airstop) cracks, whooosh. My old tubes were ~7 years old or so.

I saw what you saw, airstops backordered. Shop lent me a used tube to get me back into my hangar. So I thought I'd try two new goodyear flght mates.

First one went in okay, to replace the broken airstop. Second one: Leaked from valve stem on first inflation. Very frustrating. No external visible defects seen. I am pretty sure I didn't pinch it between the wheel halves, or some other bonehead mistake. Used talc, it looked good. Not happy...

Now I wonder how long the first one will last.

Not too thrilled with the experience. I have never returned anything to Spruce but will be trying to get my money back or a credit for an airstop...

Looks like I'll ride out my current tires until I can get the airstops.  

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3 hours ago, Old Chub said:

I will put this plug in for Michelin Airstop tubes.   My plane flew 150 hours this year and we never added air to the tires once.   I can't remember ever seeing that from a goodyear tube.

+1 My experience as well 

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Sorry, I don't buy any of the suggestions that Goodyear BUTYL tubes are better than Generic quality BUTYL tubes - Butyl is Butyl. I've been buying Dresser Butyl tubes tubes for a few decades and it's the Butyl that holds the air so much better than non-butyl tubes - not the manufacturing process. And I prefer the expensive Goodyear FC III's with their extra rubber for greater longevity but I do put 150+ hrs a year on them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Goodyear used to have seam issues with their tubes. I’ve worked on several flats that have split at the seam of the tube.  I’ve always used Michelin tubes since. I wouldn’t be afraid of Goodyear tubes now. But Desser has been around for years and their butyl tubes should be fine. Some of these tubes cost more than the tires!

-Matt

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I will put this plug in for Michelin Airstop tubes.   My plane flew 150 hours this year and we never added air to the tires once.   I can't remember ever seeing that from a goodyear tube.

My front tire doesn’t hold air like the mains do, the airstops don’t seem to work for the higher pressure.
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28 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Interesting. I've noticed that, too. Anyone else?

Yup - and the nose is actually inflated to 30psi on the short bodies, same as the mains.  The smaller air volume (small leak = big pressure change) may be part of it.  Also the shift to cooler weather would be expected to have a bigger effect on the nose tire pressure - I notice that effect for sure.

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9 hours ago, Old Chub said:

I will put this plug in for Michelin Airstop tubes.   My plane flew 150 hours this year and we never added air to the tires once.   I can't remember ever seeing that from a goodyear tube.


Air pressure leak down is a time /temperature related affect... not so much flight hours or landings... or climbs into the FLs where the dP is even greater...

How long has it been since you added air to the tires? A year?
 

Ordinary tubes were a monthly event for my M20C...

Butyl tubes in my O, is a six month expectation...  with 42 and 49psi...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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I actually conducted an unscientific study when I replaced one tube with a Michelin AIrstop in 2016 and the other main had a Goodyear installed. I found the Michelin required air once a year while the Goodyear was topped off at least 4 times every year.

I switched all over to new Michelin Airstops at my recent annual (along within Michelin Air tires). They are noticeably smoother than my previous tires.

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i recently began using n2 when i set up a propane cold weather pressurization rig for hot air balloon tanks.So far seems to make a difference...the 21% o2 contained in atmosperic air is a smaller molecule than N2..so can escape easier.My bravo calls for 41 and 52 lbs per....

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Hate to say this, but pure N2 is just a scam for most applications....  There is much misinformation on this subject simply because the tire dealerships see the advantage in charging for filling tires.  Unless you are flying a jet or other very cold application where freezing water may become an issue.   N2 doesn't hurt, but it also is no advantage for most of us piston engine single guys.  Do the research.   

quick read and not overly techical

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Map%3A_Physical_Chemistry_for_the_Biosciences_(Chang)/02%3A_Properties_of_Gases/2.9%3A_Graham's_Laws_of_Diffusion_and_Effusion

 

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On 11/13/2020 at 11:04 AM, Marauder said:

I actually conducted an unscientific study when I replaced one tube with a Michelin AIrstop in 2016 and the other main had a Goodyear installed. I found the Michelin required air once a year while the Goodyear was topped off at least 4 times every year.

I switched all over to new Michelin Airstops at my recent annual (along within Michelin Air tires). They are noticeably smoother than my previous tires.

actually sounds pretty scientific to me - kinda akin to an identical twin study in humans.

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If refilling tires once per year, using the ordinary blend of air...

Why would anyone go with N2?

No science background required for that...

But, if you like the transport properties of the larger vs. smaller molecules that can escape across a semi-porous membrane... going N2 may actually cut your refills down from three to twice per year...

Again, no tech paper required... just use your own data.

For cars to benefit the same way... would require longer periods of time between oil changes...

If you zip through the jiffy lube quarterly... they fill the tires up each time you go... the average person is never going to notice a few psi difference...

Our nose wheels are a tiny volume, at high pressure... it is quite easy to lose a few PSI, and have an extended take-off run because of it...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or transport phenomena expert...

Best regards,

-a-

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18 minutes ago, carusoam said:

If refilling tires once per year, using the ordinary blend of air...

Why would anyone go with N2?

No science background required for that...

But, if you like the transport properties of the larger vs. smaller molecules that can escape across a semi-porous membrane... going N2 may actually cut your refills down from three to twice per year...

Again, no tech paper required... just use your own data.

For cars to benefit the same way... would require longer periods of time between oil changes...

If you zip through the jiffy lube quarterly... they fill the tires up each time you go... the average person is never going to notice a few psi difference...

Our nose wheels are a tiny volume, at high pressure... it is quite easy to lose a few PSI, and have an extended take-off run because of it...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or transport phenomena expert...

Best regards,

-a-

In race cars in some applications N2 is used because it is usually easier to keep it drier than air, and any moisture present makes it much more difficult to control pressure vs temperature.   Pressure affects the size of the tire contact patch on the ground, which affects grip.   In my feeble experience and a lot of top guys, and this seems to be happening in some pro teams as well, the difference is either small or predictable, so they get the benefit of not having to deal with N2 or more expensive wheels (they need both an inlet and outlet valve in order to flush the fill).  It's just one less thing to have to mess with if it doesn't provide a significant benefit.   Of course, I race in AZ, where we couldn't get moisture in our tires if we wanted to, so there's that as well.   Likewise nobody worries about how many months a race tire will hold air, as the tires don't live nearly that long, anyway.

In Formula 1 they've even used exotic blends and CO2 and other weird stuff, and I don't know the rationale for doing any of that or whether it is even still done.   There was a bit of a scandal about it about ten years ago, so it may have just been subterfuge, anyway.

In A&P school they said that transport-category aircraft have N2 fills in the tires mostly so that when tires explode during a brake fire that they don't feed the fire with a sudden infusion of O2.

Struts are supposed to get N2 fills to mitigate corrosion both by introduction of moisture or O2.    There is a mil-spec for dry air that is supposed to be okay, too.

Unless one has a lot of cheap N2 very handy I don't think the benefit would be worth the hassle for tire fills.

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Since we are packing molecules in the space....

F1 probably cares about each gram they can shave off...

Hydrogen would probably be to dangerous to use practically...

Oxygen went out of style in one Manned Rocket effort...

I’m sure F1 went down the list of every gas possible to see what did or didn’t make a difference...

The tire manufacturers would build an extra layer to keep the gas from migrating through the carcass... and account for that extra weight as well...

PP thoughts only...  Hamilton tied Schumacher’s record for most seasons won? (Today’s F1 news)

Best regards,

-a-

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