Dream to fly Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 I have been looking for the power trim system and I think I found one that will work. But as I get further into this I realized I need the controls to operate it. So does one add switches to the original yokes till new model yokes become available for a reasonable price or do you panel mount the switch. Second issue is there must be a relay that is controlling the motor load and if so where is that located or can one wire in DPDT relay and call it good? I'm sure that aviation electrons and Auto/diesel electrons are different so I figured I'd ask first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 35 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: I have been looking for the power trim system and I think I found one that will work. But as I get further into this I realized I need the controls to operate it. So does one add switches to the original yokes till new model yokes become available for a reasonable price or do you panel mount the switch. Second issue is there must be a relay that is controlling the motor load and if so where is that located or can one wire in DPDT relay and call it good? I'm sure that aviation electrons and Auto/diesel electrons are different so I figured I'd ask first. With the Century electric trim system, there is a disconnect relay box which is normally mounted to the firewall. it disconnects the electric trim from either the yoke mounted trim switch, or the panel mounted trim disconnect switch. The trim servo power actually flows through the yoke mounted switch. The relay controls the clutch power. There are schematics in the upload section. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said: With the Century electric trim system, there is a disconnect relay box which is normally mounted to the firewall. it disconnects the electric trim from either the yoke mounted trim switch, or the panel mounted trim disconnect switch. The trim servo power actually flows through the yoke mounted switch. The relay controls the clutch power. There are schematics in the upload section. Not contesting the way its been. However would it be possible to have the load circuit stay out of the yoke and only be a control circuit in the yoke. My thinking is keep the control circuit being .5A or less in the yoke and the 7-12A in the tunnel. the breaker would interrupt the load side allowing a full disconnect. Since the F has never had an electric trim adding one can I directly design a circuit to meet the needs and get a signoff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Dream to fly said: Not contesting the way its been. However would it be possible to have the load circuit stay out of the yoke and only be a control circuit in the yoke. My thinking is keep the control circuit being .5A or less in the yoke and the 7-12A in the tunnel. the breaker would interrupt the load side allowing a full disconnect. Since the F has never had an electric trim adding one can I directly design a circuit to meet the needs and get a signoff? If you want to roll your own, you should talk to your FSDO and see if they would approve it. Installing something that has already been approved, will be much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 If you want to roll your own, you should talk to your FSDO and see if they would approve it. Installing something that has already been approved, will be much easier.The Fargo FSDO is the entrance to the almighty. The have a core group that sees one way or the other. Even when proof of logic is profoundly evident. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 Have you flown with electric trim? I find some pilots like it and others do not. I find myself most often using the manual trim when I"m flying something with electric just because the feedback feels more intuitive. To me the main benefit of electric trim is the auto-adjustments as you reduce power, etc but you don't get that without an autopilot being attached to it. -Robert 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Dream to fly said: The Fargo FSDO is the entrance to the almighty. The have a core group that sees one way or the other. Even when proof of logic is profoundly evident. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Well, they are the ones you have to convince. If you have a friendly IA that will sign off your annuals with your modifications, then you are good to go until he is not around. It is just that the FAA tends to be very particular about modifications to the flight control systems. And electric trim can adversely effect the flying qualities of the plane if it goes berserk. They would probably want a considerable amount of engineering studies and testing to prove an equivalent level of safety to a certified system. This would almost certainly cost you many times the cost of installing a certified system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Dream to fly said: The Fargo FSDO is the entrance to the almighty. The have a core group that sees one way or the other. Even when proof of logic is profoundly evident. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Joe, Have you ever considered an experimental aircraft? You always want to re-design your airplane. That's what experimental airplanes are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpaul Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said: To me the main benefit of electric trim is... Not having to take my hands off the throttle lever while adjusting airspeed during critical phases which is generally when trim is needed. Electric trim is very nice and in fact the majority of the aircraft I have flown only have electric trim, no manual option. I find the manual trim wheel on the Mooney to be too small and inconveniently located for ease of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 Joe, Have you ever considered an experimental aircraft? You always want to re-design your airplane. That's what experimental airplanes are for. I have thought about it. Problem is I'm too far into this one. I wouldn't be so quick to add an AP but I have no option but to do a windshield. So if I have to do a shield a 201 upgrade makes sense. That however blocks easy access to the wiring. As for redesign it seems silly to run current carrying wires thru a yoke. 16-18ga wire makes me think why when a 20ga wire carrying little to no current works just fine. I get it's a 1967 and back then it was the way to do things but there is a better way. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 Have you flown with electric trim? I find some pilots like it and others do not. I find myself most often using the manual trim when I"m flying something with electric just because the feedback feels more intuitive. To me the main benefit of electric trim is the auto-adjustments as you reduce power, etc but you don't get that without an autopilot being attached to it. -RobertI have flown a 182 multiple times and the electric trim is awesome. I really was just trying to get it all done this go around with putting the windshield in. I am tired of fixing the thing and would like to fly it more. I can just skip the AP all together but I already have two G5s and a GAD29 with wire in the wings ready for the AP. Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 4, 2020 Report Share Posted November 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, kpaul said: Not having to take my hands off the throttle lever while adjusting airspeed during critical phases which is generally when trim is needed. Electric trim is very nice and in fact the majority of the aircraft I have flown only have electric trim, no manual option. I find the manual trim wheel on the Mooney to be too small and inconveniently located for ease of use. It does differ by pilots. The variable speed trims are nicer, the fixed speed are pretty irritating. But for me and many pilots I've spoken to the manual wheel is nice. Even on the Citation unless I'm landing I prefer to use the manual wheel. I've actually not flown anything without a trim wheel, piston or jet. Maybe the airbus but I do see even the A320 has manual trim. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 This might get real easy real fast. Does anyone know if Garmin planned for planes that do not have electric trim to be able to add the option for electric trim in the install package? Then my hunting would be over and I don't have to recreate the wheel. All I have to do then is work another job and I can get what is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Dream to fly said: This might get real easy real fast. Does anyone know if Garmin planned for planes that do not have electric trim to be able to add the option for electric trim in the install package? Then my hunting would be over and I don't have to recreate the wheel. All I have to do then is work another job and I can get what is needed. Check the Garmin site... see what the GFC500 has for options... https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/604257 Sounds like the electric trim may be part of the package... The old BK system is all integrated... yet built from separate parts... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted November 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 Finally got a hold of a Garmin rep that verified the GFC500 for the F model will come with the brackets and the electric trim assembly for models that don't have trim already installed. The only extra will be a yaw servo. Also they figure first time installs for dealers is close to 50hrs plus depending on previous sins found that might hinder installation. The rep had some humor and said that some of these older models are a little challenging especially some that have older APs installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 On 11/5/2020 at 10:42 AM, Dream to fly said: Finally got a hold of a Garmin rep that verified the GFC500 for the F model will come with the brackets and the electric trim assembly for models that don't have trim already installed. The only extra will be a yaw servo. Also they figure first time installs for dealers is close to 50hrs plus depending on previous sins found that might hinder installation. The rep had some humor and said that some of these older models are a little challenging especially some that have older APs installed. You really want that trim too according to my shop. When the autopilot is off it will auto trim the plane for you. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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