Cirrus aircraft allegations

[AndyFromCB]

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=5751ecf1-73ef-4a3e-af5a-cbe60022dec3

 

[KSMooniac]

FYI, http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom.html

Some light background reading to keep in mind while reading the editorials at ANN.  I have no doubt that Cirrus has wronged many parties (evidenced by their deals with Patty Wagstaff and Grand Forks for starters) but you need to understand some of Zoom's history too.

[AndyFromCB]

Thanks, Wow to both sides of the story. That's all I have to say.

[74657]

That guy has a lot of anger.  I could barely get through the read.  Once you hook up with him you have a gun pointed to your head.........  He states early on about telling the truth.  To me it seems that he promised to paint a rosy picture as long as he was getting a deal on his plane and its maintenance.  How honest is that? 

[jetdriven]

Redacted

[kris_adams]

Even happy with my Mooney after reading this!

[John Pleisse]

ANN took a bite of the apple, as did Cirrus. The problem with the aviation press is they never deal in cash, just favors and trade for consideration and freebies. This creates slant and hype with products. Really....is ANN that dense?  Personally speaking, this ANN rant reminds me of that law-suit-happy-Mooney-wanna-be-journalist down in Florida.

Oh...the Chinese got their just reward too.........Cirrus.

[danb35]

Yeah, the article is classic Jim Campbell--questionable ethics, veiled threats, criminal accusations, law enforcement is investigating, etc.  The only thing missing was "govern yourself accordingly".  There may well be some truth to what he says, but if he told me the sun would rise in the morning, I'd be looking for a second opinion.

[Jeff_S]

The problem is you don't know who to believe...and the reality is that there are undoubtedly personality disorders on both sides. When I was young and naive (and before really entering the corporate world) I thought most of these issues were just fabricated. But I have seen my fair share of executives that clearly exhibit the narcissism and egotism that are depicted in these stories, and then I realized that there really are dudes and dudettes out there like that. It's amazing to me how they get so far.

But then again, one need only look to a Gadaffi, or a Chavez, or any number of maniacal leaders to realize that the phenomonen is real. 

[Hank]

Quote: astelmaszek

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=5751ecf1-73ef-4a3e-af5a-cbe60022dec3

[orangemtl]

A painful read.  Wish I could leap to SOMEone's defense and say "No; no, people simply do not behave this way."

Yes; yes, they do.  I've seen theoretically experienced and professional individuals behave exactly the way that the current Cirrus CEO is depicted; I've seen companies turn on vendors for the least perceived slight, and I've seen them try to mess with companies or individuals by throwing disinformation to the IRS.  Heck, I can name at leat 2 or 3 (hundred?) political figures known to us all who one could easily imagine behaving in this fashion.

An older and much smarter colleague of mine once told me "people don't change after 7th grade. They just become more sophisticated at displaying immature behaviors." I suspect there's a bit of that on both sides of this fiasco.

In case I forget, remind me not to run out and buy a Cirrus as a spare, won't you all?

[fantom]

Quote: orangemtl

An older and much smarter colleague of mine once told me "people don't change after 7th grade. They just become more sophisticated at displaying immature behaviors." I suspect there's a bit of that on both sides of this fiasco.

In case I forget, remind me not to run out and buy a Cirrus as a spare, won't you all?

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: orangemtl

In case I forget, remind me not to run out and buy a Cirrus as a spare, won't you all?

[johnggreen]

The most disturbing thing to me is that the "demise" of Cirrus may really portend the demise of general aviation.

In a nation of over 300 million people, a nation that is the most properous and powerful on earth, with the fewest constraints on its people, there is not room for a company to serve a market of successful, hard working individuals who desire and can utilize the freedom and utility of general aviation.

The causes are multi-layered, but make no mistake, the root of the cause is the growth of government and its intrusion into our lives and the desire of the up and coming political class to create a docile, obedient, and "one-class" populace.  Politicians do not fear the rich, from who they demand and receive tithes or the poor, whose loyalty they buy with alms, it is the middle class, the man neither profiting from nor dependent on government that they fear.

My great grandchildren will know of aviation only from the innards of the cattle trailer airliner that shuttles them from one faceless urban center to another and from the picture of their great-grandfather standing by one of his "obsessive consumption toys" that hangs on the wall of their cubicled enclosed, government furnished, apartment.

We should all desperately mourn the loss of Cirrus.

"I hate politicians and I vote for the man, not the party, as long as he's not a damn democrat"

Just heard that in the coffee shop the other day and couldn't resist.  Sorry

 

[aerobat95]

Quote: johnggreen

The most disturbing thing to me is that the "demise" of Cirrus may really portend the demise of general aviation.

In a nation of over 300 million people, a nation that is the most properous and powerful on earth, with the fewest constraints on its people, there is not room for a company to serve a market of successful, hard working individuals who desire and can utilize the freedom and utility of general aviation.

The causes are multi-layered, but make no mistake, the root of the cause is the growth of government and its intrusion into our lives and the desire of the up and coming political class to create a docile, obedient, and "one-class" populace.  Politicians do not fear the rich, from who they demand and receive tithes or the poor, whose loyalty they buy with alms, it is the middle class, the man neither profiting from nor dependent on government that they fear.

My great grandchildren will know of aviation only from the innards of the cattle trailer airliner that shuttles them from one faceless urban center to another and from the picture of their great-grandfather standing by one of his "obsessive consumption toys" that hangs on the wall of their cubicled enclosed, government furnished, apartment.

We should all desperately mourn the loss of Cirrus.

"I hate politicians and I vote for the man, not the party, as long as he's not a damn democrat"

Just heard that in the coffee shop the other day and couldn't resist.  Sorry

 

[jasong]

Quote: aerobat95

 Sad but true.....I hate seeing the loss of any aviation company. 

[jetdriven]

Chinese company bought them.  

 

[johnggreen]

Jasong,

We all have our little "pickadillos" as Johnny Carson used to say.  In my opinion, we have "lost" Cirrus.  I almost bought a new one in '04; to the point of standing at the fax to send the order complete with my AMEX # for the down payment.  It was a Friday and I decided it would wait until Monday.  Over the weekend, I changed my mind.  Bought the Bravo instead.

I've flown the SR-22 on several occasions and it is not a bad airplane.  It is in fact a lot more comfortable for me and my wife than the Bravo, but that is now irrelevant.  Hell will freeze over before I'll buy one now, new or used.  I'll place a bet that the manufacturing process will be in China within 5 years if there are any takers.

Our government has been working a long time to insure that doing business in the USA is just simply too expensive.  Don't buy the argument that it's about wages either.

We are toast. 

Just one fool's opinion, but that is what this blog is about.

[bnicolette]

I haven't taken the time to read through all these posts, but the company I am working for now (Skyward Aviation) is a training center for Cirrus and I know that he has sold over 5 of the SR22's? this year alone.  They seem to be doing pretty well.  They have a dedicated full time instructor to teach folks in these things?   Is the company not doing well?  I was almost toying with the idea of sellling my Mooney and trying to get a club going of 5 - 10 guys on a new Cirrus, but I just love my Mooney too much to be thinking of that right now.

[jasong]

Quote: jetdriven

Chinese company bought them.  

 

[jasong]

Quote: johnggreen

Jasong,

We all have our little "pickadillos" as Johnny Carson used to say.  In my opinion, we have "lost" Cirrus.  I almost bought a new one in '04; to the point of standing at the fax to send the order complete with my AMEX # for the down payment.  It was a Friday and I decided it would wait until Monday.  Over the weekend, I changed my mind.  Bought the Bravo instead.

I've flown the SR-22 on several occasions and it is not a bad airplane.  It is in fact a lot more comfortable for me and my wife than the Bravo, but that is now irrelevant.  Hell will freeze over before I'll buy one now, new or used.  I'll place a bet that the manufacturing process will be in China within 5 years if there are any takers.

Our government has been working a long time to insure that doing business in the USA is just simply too expensive.  Don't buy the argument that it's about wages either.

We are toast. 

Just one fool's opinion, but that is what this blog is about.

[jetdriven]

We cannot compete against 800$/mo wages such as in asia. Import tariffs, quotas, and other protectionist laws helped but they were weakened long ago. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: jasong

I'm just as much a proponent of small government as the next guy, but our inability to manufacture goods (in general) at an acceptable cost has just as much to do with unions and our sense of entitlement as anything else.

[RJBrown]

Quote: DaV8or

Yeah, you're right. If these low life blue collar guys would just wise up and do 10-12 hour days with no benefits, six days a week for about a $1 an hour, we could compete. Would take care of our immigration problems too. Mexicans would stay at home because they could make more money there. Yep, there are American entitlements to cheap energy, cheap consumer goods, cheap food and cheap resources and we don't care who we have to step on to get it.

[jasong]

Quote: DaV8or

Yeah, you're right. If these low life blue collar guys would just wise up and do 10-12 hour days with no benefits, six days a week for about a $1 an hour, we could compete. Would take care of our immigration problems too. Mexicans would stay at home because they could make more money there. Yep, there are American entitlements to cheap energy, cheap consumer goods, cheap food and cheap resources and we don't care who we have to step on to get it.