Painting Recommendations

[Prestonalton]

Hi all, it's come time to get my Mooney repainted soon. I'm looking for some recommendations for a few things:

1. Paint scheme- I'm thinking Purple and Red (I know unique), anyone have a Mooney with these colors for some inspiration? Also, will certain colors cost more than others?

2. Shop recommendations- I'm willing to travel if NW Florida doesn't have great options. Anybody have some gouge on which places do a great job? I'm obviously not trying to break the bank but i'm not trying to go cheap either. Looking for the fairest price possible.

3. What is a fair price for a full paint job on a M20F? How long can I expect to be without my beloved Mooney?

Thanks all! 

 

[ArtVandelay]

The price of the job depends on :

Number of colors, complexity of the scheme.

Which colors, red(s) is most expensive...$1000/gal

Metallic or regular?

Do you want the landing gear disassembled and painted or just touched up.

 

I ended up with fuel leaks after prepping (inspection plates) and ended up having to patch my tanks, so that delayed and added to the cost of the job.

 

It can be done in 6 weeks...I always double their estimates...so 3 months minimum.

[aviatoreb]

5 hours ago, Prestonalton said:

Hi all, it's come time to get my Mooney repainted soon. I'm looking for some recommendations for a few things:

1. Paint scheme- I'm thinking Purple and Red (I know unique), anyone have a Mooney with these colors for some inspiration? Also, will certain colors cost more than others?

2. Shop recommendations- I'm willing to travel if NW Florida doesn't have great options. Anybody have some gouge on which places do a great job? I'm obviously not trying to break the bank but i'm not trying to go cheap either. Looking for the fairest price possible.

3. What is a fair price for a full paint job on a M20F? How long can I expect to be without my beloved Mooney?

Thanks all! 

 

Purple and red sounds really cool.

Ask yourself how old is your fuel tank sealant - while not leaking, mine was original so I was sure that my tanks would start leaking soon after a new paint job and ruin the paint.  SO I got a reseal immediately proceeding paint.

[Prestonalton]

14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

The price of the job depends on :

Number of colors, complexity of the scheme.

Which colors, red(s) is most expensive...$1000/gal

Metallic or regular?

Do you want the landing gear disassembled and painted or just touched up.

 

I ended up with fuel leaks after prepping (inspection plates) and ended up having to patch my tanks, so that delayed and added to the cost of the job.

 

It can be done in 6 weeks...I always double their estimates...so 3 months minimum.

Wow, 6 weeks/3months...idk if I can go without flying that long! Jk, the Mooney needs a spa day...or month every so often.

I’d imagine just regular paint would be fine and gear would probably be touched up, Mooney looks best in the air when you don’t see the gear anyway

Good to know about the fuel cell leaks. 
 

I’d imagine white is the cheapest? What is the price range on colors? If reds are $1000/gal what would the lower end colors be. If it’s like $900/gal I think it’s worth doing some expensive colors but if it’s like $500/gal I would probably stick with a cheaper base color and add onto it.

[ArtVandelay]

 
I’d imagine white is the cheapest? What is the price range on colors? If reds are $1000/gal what would the lower end colors be. If it’s like $900/gal I think it’s worth doing some expensive colors but if it’s like $500/gal I would probably stick with a cheaper base color and add onto it.

Matterhorn white is standard I believe, it’s not cheap, but I don’t think it’s close to red in price. I did ask about red with gold metallic...he just laughed, but got the impression he like to see how it would come out.
You’ll need to discuss this all with whatever shop you choose.
One more thing, 2 tone jobs are also more expensive.
So pick your scheme and your colors, then ask for quotes, otherwise any ballpark # is useless.
Some use professional schemers, I did not because I knew exactly what I wanted.

[Prestonalton]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Matterhorn white is standard I believe, it’s not cheap, but I don’t think it’s close to red in price. I did ask about red with gold metallic...he just laughed, but got the impression he like to see how it would come out.
You’ll need to discuss this all with whatever shop you choose.
One more thing, 2 tone jobs are also more expensive.
So pick your scheme and your colors, then ask for quotes, otherwise any ballpark # is useless.
Some use professional schemers, I did not because I knew exactly what I wanted.

Any recommendations for shops?/who did yours?

[Bravoman]

Hawk in Zephyrhills has always gotten good reviews for quality and price.

[BKlott]

Avoid East Coast at Deland.

[ArtVandelay]

Any recommendations for shops?/who did yours?

Hawk never responded to me.
I went with Chips @ KFPR. Overall they did a good job, but I did have several issues that I found afterwards which they will have go back and repaint and touch up, which they said they’ll be glad to do. Unfortunately they’re busy, most paint shops are booked for months.

There is also a good upholstery shop there too if you’re going to do a complete makeover.

[NotarPilot]

On 10/27/2020 at 12:49 AM, ArtVandelay said:

It can be done in 6 weeks...I always double their estimates...so 3 months minimum.

I know we’re all supposed to do it when the engine is inactive that long but are people really pickling their engines when they’re in the paint shop for 3 months?  I’m scheduled for avionics, tank reseal and paint early next year and even the thought of 6 weeks without the engine running makes me cringe a little.

And the quote I got, just to add to the discussion, was about $18.5k for the paint and that’s including a pearl white base with two metallic trims. I settled on about $23k with having the windows replaced too.

I also employed Scheme Designers to help me with the design. I had an idea of a design I saw on a helicopter that I really liked and they were able to apply that to my 201 and I’m really happy with the way it came out. I’m very excited for 2021. 

[ArtVandelay]

I know we’re all supposed to do it when the engine is inactive that long but are people really pickling their engines when they’re in the paint shop for 3 months?  I’m scheduled for avionics, tank reseal and paint early next year and even the thought of 6 weeks without the engine running makes me cringe a little.
And the quote I got, just to add to the discussion, was about $18.5k for the paint and that’s including a pearl white base with two metallic trims. I settled on about $23k with having the windows replaced too.
I also employed Scheme Designers to help me with the design. I had an idea of a design I saw on a helicopter that I really liked and they were able to apply that to my 201 and I’m really happy with the way it came out. I’m very excited for 2021. 

I just changed the oil and put camguard in it. Having the windows done is a good idea, I did this as well as the landing light lens, they will do a nice bead of PRC to seal them.



And now is the time to customize your tail number, costs only $20.

[Bravoman]

5 hours ago, NotarPilot said:

I know we’re all supposed to do it when the engine is inactive that long but are people really pickling their engines when they’re in the paint shop for 3 months?  I’m scheduled for avionics, tank reseal and paint early next year and even the thought of 6 weeks without the engine running makes me cringe a little.

And the quote I got, just to add to the discussion, was about $18.5k for the paint and that’s including a pearl white base with two metallic trims. I settled on about $23k with having the windows replaced too.

I also employed Scheme Designers to help me with the design. I had an idea of a design I saw on a helicopter that I really liked and they were able to apply that to my 201 and I’m really happy with the way it came out. I’m very excited for 2021. 

 Which shop gave you the paint quote? 

[NotarPilot]

4 hours ago, Bravoman said:

 Which shop gave you the paint quote? 

Art-Craft in Santa Maria, CA (KSMX) Notice I put the name next to the airport code, people.

 

8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I just changed the oil and put camguard in it. Having the windows done is a good idea, I did this as well as the landing light lens, they will do a nice bead of PRC to seal them.



And now is the time to customize your tail number, costs only $20.

I’ve had a N number reserved for about 8 years that’s going on the plane. Great point!

[y2kiah]

@Frank B. the aircraft looks amazing. Being on the field myself I would love to use those guys at Ormond Aircraft. I only hear good things about them from others, but I am having trust issues after a walk-in encounter for a simple oil change. I told them I was having low fuel pressure readings and was concerned about the pump. Steve quoted me $2500 for an engine driven fuel pump (a $350 part, $550 installed)... with another mechanic in the room, who then proceeded to BS me about not being able to trade in the pump core anymore and that's why it's so expensive. I could understand an honest mistake coming from one guy, but with two of them in the room seemingly having the same amnesia, I never bothered to go back. Not asking you to defend them or even believe my story, though it is true, but it would take a pretty damn good reference and a solid explanation of that quote to get me back in there at this point.

Sorry to derail the topic, part of my reason for reaching out with this story is that I would prefer to develop a good relationship with those guys and have a mechanic and paint shop on the field that I can trust. You have known Steve for a few years, would you assume based on your experiences that this was a misunderstanding and he would never try to con someone?

[Frank B.]

On 11/10/2020 at 9:42 PM, y2kiah said:

@Frank B. the aircraft looks amazing. Being on the field myself I would love to use those guys at Ormond Aircraft. I only hear good things about them from others, but I am having trust issues after a walk-in encounter for a simple oil change. I told them I was having low fuel pressure readings and was concerned about the pump. Steve quoted me $2500 for an engine driven fuel pump (a $350 part, $550 installed)... with another mechanic in the room, who then proceeded to BS me about not being able to trade in the pump core anymore and that's why it's so expensive. I could understand an honest mistake coming from one guy, but with two of them in the room seemingly having the same amnesia, I never bothered to go back. Not asking you to defend them or even believe my story, though it is true, but it would take a pretty damn good reference and a solid explanation of that quote to get me back in there at this point.

Sorry to derail the topic, part of my reason for reaching out with this story is that I would prefer to develop a good relationship with those guys and have a mechanic and paint shop on the field that I can trust. You have known Steve for a few years, would you assume based on your experiences that this was a misunderstanding and he would never try to con someone?

I really can’t speak for their mechanic work but I have recently seen a few sizable mechanic jobs go through their shop from people on the field. I haven’t personally been back in their shop since they painted my plane a few months ago. I just occasionally stop and say hello if I see them out on the ramp when I am driving by. As for my dealings with them they have done two paint jobs for me. They gave we written proposals with exactly what was and what wasn’t included in their paint job. Both times I shopped their prices and ended up coming full circle back to them. We both signed the proposal making it a contract. They started on the exact day that they said that they would and finished 3 or 4 days early. They provided exactly what they agreed to in our contract.

If I were you I would address the issue you have directly with Steve III and get an explanation from him. He has always been straight with me and I am guessing he will do the same with you. In my business we always put every proposal / estimate in writing and I always ask the same of anyone that is giving me a estimate / proposal. Let us know the outcome. 

[Jerry Pressley]

Some of the nicest paint jobs I have seen come from Mora in Santiago, dom rep.    Nice flight from Miami.  airline on the field for trip back.  Last one he painted for me 2 weeks. full strip and you pick colors and scheme.  His English is very good and phone is 809 762 8581.   I could be enticed to ride along. 

[Prestonalton]

A little update to this topic. I have received some quotes and they are wildly different. Here are the three with some background:

1. $15k from a reputable shop with a lifetime warranty...first opening in October of this year

2. $22-$25k from one of the top shops in the country...also first opening in October of this year

3. $8-10k from a shop just getting into painting but who I have gotten other work done on the plane with and they have done a very good job. They can get me in for paint this April, and it's the closest to home so I could drive to see the progress.

A couple questions I have:

What is the worst that could happen with a paint job? I would imagine paint is paint, but there has to be some reason why there is such variation in the quotes.

The 3rd shop is quoting 4 weeks time for the paint job, I will be the only plane getting painted there, is this too short?

I obviously am leaning toward the 3rd shop, and I have discussed the process and paint used with them (full strip, etc) and feel comfortable with their work for other things on my plane, but I am still wary about being one of their first paint customers. Should I be worried?

[ArtVandelay]

A little update to this topic. I have received some quotes and they are wildly different. Here are the three with some background: 1. $15k from a reputable shop with a lifetime warranty...first opening in October of this year

2. $22-$25k from one of the top shops in the country...also first opening in October of this year

3. $8-10k from a shop just getting into painting but who I have gotten other work done on the plane with and they have done a very good job. They can get me in for paint this April, and it's the closest to home so I could drive to see the progress.

A couple questions I have:

What is the worst that could happen with a paint job? I would imagine paint is paint, but there has to be some reason why there is such variation in the quotes.

The 3rd shop is quoting 4 weeks time for the paint job, I will be the only plane getting painted there, is this too short?

I obviously am leaning toward the 3rd shop, and I have discussed the process and paint used with them (full strip, etc) and feel comfortable with their work for other things on my plane, but I am still wary about being one of their first paint customers. Should I be worried?

 

I had a cheap paint job, they didn’t remove the control surfaces, it was awful, but look good from 100 yards.

Paint jobs prices depends on:

Color of paint, number of colors, type of paint, paint scheme...

If you didn’t give them this info I would take those quotes as rough estimates.

I don’t see how they can paint a Mooney for less than $10k.

[carusoam]

Find the paint threads and read....

things like...

1) Lines that didn’t line up...

2) Curved lines that weren’t curvy...

3) Legal issues related to copying somebody else’s art work...

4) Runs and drips...

5) Over spray..

6) Things that shouldn’t get painted, got painted...

7) Things that are supposed to get weighed and balanced, didn’t...

8) Paint that didn’t get stripped properly...

9) Some chemical strippers remove your tank’s sealant too...

10) some paint that gets stripped chemically runs into the plane and dries up...

11) Some fasteners got ground, just a little... where there is no tolerance for sanding off the rivets....

12) Speaking of dirt and overspray... all the things that get entwined in your new paint before it gets dry... bugs, dirt, or paint from the plane getting painted next to yours...

13) Going far away to get a low cost... then find some issues when you get back home...

14) proper prep work is the basis...

15) Finished quality 

There are about 20 more reasons to go to a shop that has done a Mooney, that you can look at... and say give me one of these, on my plane...

PP thoughts only,

-a-

[Jerry Pressley]

manuaql does remove anything necessary including gear doors, cont surfaces etc.  plan no more than #3

[Jerry Pressley]

Normally I would offer to go with you to Manuals place but it is such a simple flight that you don't need me.  glad to discuss it though.  jerry 423 231 3491

[Jerry Pressley]

an example of manual moras paint.  small or large  does good work   much cheaper than normal shop

[jetdriven]

All paint jobs look great through a cell phone camera. But when you get up to it put your hands on it you can tell them pretty quick.

Someone earlier asked what the worst that could happen is, well that ranges widely, from having to have somebody strip and repaint the whole airplane, to replacing all the windows, to corrosion in hidden areas where stripper got on something where it shouldn't have gotten. Like the wing spar in the wheel well.

[Jerry Pressley]

Manual paints for most of the larger companies and all the helicopters in the Caribbean.  A US customer had a problem years ago on a mooney and Manual flew all the way to West Memphis to correct a 2 hour flaw.  I used him for almost 20 years with never a problem.  I am sorry suggested him as I thought I was doing someone a favor as he was actually looking for an exceptional paint job.  Manual would have done much better than this. cowling doesnt match

 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

All paint jobs look great through a cell phone camera. But when you get up to it put your hands on it you can tell them pretty quick.

...

I think you can say that about a lot of things.  So they say the same thing about dating apps.