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Can you rent LPUs, or rafts?


RocketGnome

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Hello all, not a Florida flyer anymore and when I was it was with the Air Force so all my over water needs were taken care of for me. I'm heading down there for a TDY in a week or so (hurricane allowing?) and will be flying my M20E down to Panama City. I'm planning on making a trip down to Key West and out to Dry Tortuga as I'm planning on flying over every national park. My questions are, can I rent a pair of life preservers and a raft for the day, or do I need to buy? I could always just risk it, but I'm risk adverse so that's less of an option for me. The life vests aren't a big deal, but the raft's are not cheap. Does most everyone just go with he vests and no raft? Is there anything else I should be thinking of like giving the Coast Guard a heads up as to my plan the day of? I think a DVFR needs to be filed, but that should be it for there correct?

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35 minutes ago, RocketGnome said:

Hello all, not a Florida flyer anymore and when I was it was with the Air Force so all my over water needs were taken care of for me. I'm heading down there for a TDY in a week or so (hurricane allowing?) and will be flying my M20E down to Panama City. I'm planning on making a trip down to Key West and out to Dry Tortuga as I'm planning on flying over every national park. My questions are, can I rent a pair of life preservers and a raft for the day, or do I need to buy? I could always just risk it, but I'm risk adverse so that's less of an option for me. The life vests aren't a big deal, but the raft's are not cheap. Does most everyone just go with he vests and no raft? Is there anything else I should be thinking of like giving the Coast Guard a heads up as to my plan the day of? I think a DVFR needs to be filed, but that should be it for there correct?

Yes, Banyan at FXE will rent you anything you need.

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I flew with my friend to the Bahamas, and we just used life vests in his Cirrus.  One thing I noticed was that there were lots of boats along the way.  Between glide distance, life vests and other boats/planes; I felt okay with just the vests.

West Palm to West End is 60nm, so you’re out of glide distance for about half at 11,500’

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58 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:


West Palm to West End is 60nm, so you’re out of glide distance for about half at 11,500’

 

Yeah, I wasn't too clear with my post.  I was actually referring to gliding close to a boat.  It seemed like we saw a lot of them along the way.  

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On 10/25/2020 at 2:06 PM, RocketGnome said:

Hello all, not a Florida flyer anymore and when I was it was with the Air Force so all my over water needs were taken care of for me. I'm heading down there for a TDY in a week or so (hurricane allowing?) and will be flying my M20E down to Panama City. I'm planning on making a trip down to Key West and out to Dry Tortuga as I'm planning on flying over every national park. My questions are, can I rent a pair of life preservers and a raft for the day, or do I need to buy? I could always just risk it, but I'm risk adverse so that's less of an option for me. The life vests aren't a big deal, but the raft's are not cheap. Does most everyone just go with he vests and no raft? Is there anything else I should be thinking of like giving the Coast Guard a heads up as to my plan the day of? I think a DVFR needs to be filed, but that should be it for there correct?

There are rentals that can be found with a search...

Discussing just taking a risk... is kind of odd.... As in flying over open water outside of gliding distance... and not having a life jackets and/or raft...  sounds kinda suicidal when things go silent...

There are are recommendations and full discussions of what to have, and how to use it... around here...

things like... tying off the raft... how and why...

putting on the life jacket, but not inflating... how and why...

Radio to have, and that emergency signal thing that communicates via satellite with gps and light...
 

The more you prepare, the less you are going to need it...   :)


PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 5 months later...
On 10/26/2020 at 8:29 PM, RocketGnome said:

Thanks everyone, I think I'll just buy two LPUs, it's under $100 a piece and forgo the life raft. I'm only going if its a good enough day that people with boats would also think its a good day to be on the water. I was planning on picking up a PLB so now may be that time lol.

Could you post what type of LPU you ended up buying with a link and/or a pic? Curious as I intend to fly between central MI and Chicago area over (or around) the lower part of Lake Michigan. I've seen some snazzy fishing vests that have the compressed CO2 cartridges. Seems like that would be comfortable. That and checking the lake water temperature for flights to make a go/no-go decision on flying over or around the lake.

Anyone have thoughts on that? 

TIA

 

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Upon @Hyett6420's recommendation and after his Mooney Summit presentation in 2019 we bought 2 Spinlock Deckvests. They are a little pricier than the $100 ones you can get but when you consider it is a one time purchase and look at everything the vest has it is worth it. When we decided we would take others with us to Catalina or along coastal flights I debated in my head if I wanted to spend that much money for two more that would get rarely used or just buy a couple of the $100 variety. It wasn't much debate in my head before deciding there is no way I could live with the guilt if we ditched and my wife and I survived but the passengers didn't because I went cheap on the life vest.

So, I bought two more Spinlock Deckvests, this time the 6D model which is even more comfortable than the 5D's we had purchased. We wear the 6D (more comfortable) and they get the 5D (still comfortable). The extra two don't get used often and hang on hooks in the hangar, but we have them if needed. Anytime we are flying over water or along the coast we have them and wear them. Having them in the back seat is not so helpful, just put them on before you take off. Often along the coast here in the water is the best place to ditch. Yesterday we went to Santa Barbara for lunch. The departure on 15R/L takes you off the coast so before climbing in the plane and starting up we put on the life vests. Departure kept us on runway heading until we were 7 miles off the coast before letting us turn and resume navigation. Nothing went wrong but I was glad to have the life vests on as they held us at 1,500 initially and then up to 3,500 so we were well away from gliding distance. Honestly after a couple minutes you forget you are wearing it, they really are comfortable.

I also have a PLB that stays in the plane. It hangs from a lanyard off the center post when I'm not flying and before starting up it goes around my neck. If you aren't wearing something and you put down off airport you might as well not have it because who knows where it will end up inside the cabin. Even if it is just a short local flight I wear the PLB. If you have to put down somewhere away from a road you might not be easy to spot and don't count on cell service.

Here are links for a couple places that sell the Spinlock Deckvest 6D. I bought all of mine through The Binnacle on Ebay, good service, fast shipping. $299/ea may sound expensive, but you're going to spend at least $100/ea anyway, why not the extra? You only buy them once and Andrew said your life (and your passenger's) is priceless.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spinlock-Deckvest-6D-Inflatable-Lifejacket-Vest-New/174343540140 - The Binnacle $299.95/ea

https://www.landfallnavigation.com/catalog/product/view/id/98684.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwvMqDBhB8EiwA2iSmPAiA2hzfb7DHDhlPZActX89eYJ4QlUp3j7FsArPf81JaRYk54TS0ZxoCyWAQAvD_BwE#132=30589 - Landfall Navigation $295.20/ea

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Thanks for the info. I don't think the water in Lake Michigan every gets much above 70 degrees regardless of the time of year. I'm not sure wearing the drysuit would be practical as I'd be dressed for work (airline pilot) underneath. I may just have to, as a rule of thumb, fly around the lake and when vectored too far offshore, let them know I'm unable due to single engine glide limitations.

Has anyone ever been vectored offshore around the Great Lakes and told ATC that they're unable due to single engine glide restriction?

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12 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Thanks for the info. I don't think the water in Lake Michigan every gets much above 70 degrees regardless of the time of year. I'm not sure wearing the drysuit would be practical as I'd be dressed for work (airline pilot) underneath. I may just have to, as a rule of thumb, fly around the lake and when vectored too far offshore, let them know I'm unable due to single engine glide limitations.

Has anyone ever been vectored offshore around the Great Lakes and told ATC that they're unable due to single engine glide restriction?

I have not done that. I have filed routes around the lake rather than over and they understand what you are doing. On one occasion I filed a route to cross at the narrowest point, which is up near Green Bay, and they wanted to vector me over the south part of the lake where it is wide. I got on the horn and told them I preferred the northern crossing, so they routed me up to GRB. It was an Angel Flight with an infant, I explained that to them, maybe that helped, but typically my experience with ATC is that they will cooperate with your routing request if you let them know what you want, it is just not an issue.

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On 10/26/2020 at 8:07 PM, carusoam said:

Discussing just taking a risk... is kind of odd.... As in flying over open water outside of gliding distance... and not having a life jackets and/or raft...  sounds kinda suicidal when things go silent...

There are are recommendations and full discussions of what to have, and how to use it... around here...

things like... tying off the raft... how and why...

putting on the life jacket, but not inflating... how and why...

Radio to have, and that emergency signal thing that communicates via satellite with gps and light...
 

The more you prepare, the less you are going to need it...   :)


PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

I have done this several times, flown over water out of glide range. The biggest concern I have is the single door when carrying passengers. Never done a water landing, who has? But from reading, it is always going to be a roll of the dice whether you wind up right side up and float, or you catch a wing and cartwheel. So what do you do to stay alive and get any passengers moving out of the aircraft as quickly as possible. And you have to assume they will not move very fast or may even be unconscious. Number one safety device, I think, is good seat belts so no one gets knocked out. I tried carrying a SpareAir, which is a very small scuba device that gives you a few breaths to bail out, but SpareAir and the scuba shops don't get the concept, I just can't get the device configured they way I want it. A small bottle with a regulator? But that is alot of tubes and junk running around the cockpit when you don't need things running around the cockpit. All the rest, life jacket, raft, survival kit, EPIRB, etc., don't matter if you can't get out. Would love to hear the solutions others might have come up with. Assuming you are still conscious, you are going to be the one to orchestra the exit from the plane. What is your plan? And where are you going to stow the raft, vests, kit, etc. so you can get them before the plane goes down?

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4 hours ago, jlunseth said:

 And where are you going to stow the raft, vests, kit, etc. so you can get them before the plane goes down?

As far as the vest go they shouldn't be stowed. You and your passengers should be wearing them when you get in the plane.

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Possible. The counterargument is that they can get hung up on the way out the door, or in the seat belt, or someone who is anxious can reflexively inflate the vest before exit. Depends on who is in that right seat. If it is someone who you can rely on, that is a good idea, if it is a child or someone else you can't rely on, not a good idea. I used to fly to the Bahamas with a friend who had Alzheimers. I did not have him put his vest on for the flight over, would have been a bad idea. But let's say you have a raft and a survival kit, how do you stow them so you have the best chance of getting them out? I put them in the backseat, but it occurred to me that a rope with a float that would be long enough to bring out the door with you would be a good idea. Put them in the luggage compartment? And then have to either forego locking it for the flight, or risk having to get the key out with you and then not losing the key so you can get in the door? 

I came to the conclusion that raft and kit, etc. are nice to have in the back but your chances of being able to get them out are 50% or less. You would need a good, upright water landing, some float time, and a very good right seat passenger. In other words, you would need to be lucky. Still does not stop me from carrying them.

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On 4/18/2021 at 12:57 PM, Hyett6420 said:

Ive done an underwater escape course, wearing a full suit and life jacket. There is a trick....

apart from you (as your hands will be busy) and this is for a mooney have ALL your passengers the moment you know you are going done put their RIGHT hand on the RIGHT hand side of the seat. Using the other hand once stopped ONE BY ONE they unfasten the seat belt. The front passenger (who should always be the fittest) should exit the plane and pull front seat forward to allow right rear to exit, the left rear, then Pilot.  The hand thing is CRITICAL because even if you are upside down your body will naturally move to the side where your hand is fixed. Trust me when i say this works. 
 

4 of us repeatedly exited a 4 seat small plane fuselage in less than a minute that was under water.   The entry into the water is quite violent as well to simulate the real impact.  

I flew for the Navy and went through dunker training years ago. I’m not as spry and in shape as I was then. As for passengers, I think flying an extra 15-30 minutes going around the south end of the lake is worth the extra cost in peace of mind. Just thinking out loud. Great discussion! 

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