Pre-Purchase Checklist

[Jhj123]

Hey Guys,

I am arranging Pre-Purchase on a M20J in ABQ.  It will go to the local FBO, they are asking me to provide a list of items for inspection as they don't do Pre-Inspections in general.  Unfortunately not many option in ABQ, I tried Steve Bunch in Santa Fe but he is booked up for a month and a half.  Is there a PPI list that other members have usde? they suggested using the annual inspection as a starting point but I thought I'd ask on this forum.  

BTW the plane had a full annual in September?

Thanks

[MikeOH]

Random thoughts from a first time owner of 3 years.  Some of this could have been done BEFORE the pre-buy, but is crucial none-the-less:

1) Recent usage. My number 1 criteria.  It took a surprisingly long time to find a plane that had actually been flown consistently and for a reasonable number hours.  Somewhat subjective, but over 50 hours a year (spread out, not all in one month), preferably 100 hours per year, over the last 3 years, at least.

2) Logbook review for not just AD compliance but evidence of on-going maintenance and upgrades.  One entry per year of "inspected in accordance with MM, airworthy, A&P signature" isn't going to cut it!

3) Corrosion: wing spar and tubing structure.  This could be expensive to inspect as rear seats and interior panels have to come out.  WAY MORE expensive to find corrosion AFTER you buy.

4) Does EVERYTHING work?  Are they going to fly the plane checking that, and if the plane is rigged right?

5) Condition of tires and gear donuts...how much life is left.

6) Prop condition/leakage (ask me how I know; NOT caught at pre-buy)

There are others, but those are the high dollar items.

Honestly, while it's true a pre-buy is whatever you want it to be, if this is just a convenient FBO, and NOT a Mooney familiar shop, then I'd have reservations about the value of a pre-buy from them.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jhj123 said:

Hey Guys,

I am arranging Pre-Purchase on a M20J in ABQ.  It will go to the local FBO, they are asking me to provide a list of items for inspection as they don't do Pre-Inspections in general.  Unfortunately not many option in ABQ, I tried Steve Bunch in Santa Fe but he is booked up for a month and a half.  Is there a PPI list that other members have usde? they suggested using the annual inspection as a starting point but I thought I'd ask on this forum.  

BTW the plane had a full annual in September?

Thanks

The PPI list I use is in the downloads section above, under safety and techniques.

Clarence

Edited October 16, 2020 by M20Doc

[Jhj123]

3 hours ago, MikeOH said:

 

Honestly, while it's true a pre-buy is whatever you want it to be, if this is just a convenient FBO, and NOT a Mooney familiar shop, then I'd have reservations about the value of a pre-buy from them.

I know that’s my problem, I’m trying to get Lynn at AGL to direct and provide an oversight as a consultant. He maybe too busy. Let’s see

[Jhj123]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The PPI list I use is in the downloads section above, under safety and techniques.

Clarence

Thank you Clarence 

[MikeOH]

41 minutes ago, Jhj123 said:

I know that’s my problem, I’m trying to get Lynn at AGL to direct and provide an oversight as a consultant. He maybe too busy. Let’s see

That is a really good idea!

[Jhj123]

Also, I finally got the logs. The last few annual and tech time btwn them, Shooot...

12/12-10/14: 32 hrs
10/14-12/17: 27 hrs
12/17-9/20: 2 hrs


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[carusoam]

How damp was KABQ during that time frame?

was the plane stored indoors or out?

How many hours on the engine?

how interested in the plane are you if you wanted to move forwards...?

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Jhj123 said:

Also, I finally got the logs. The last few annual and tech time btwn them, Shooot...

12/12-10/14: 32 hrs
10/14-12/17: 27 hrs
12/17-9/20: 2 hrs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not really an active flyer.  You can borescope the cylinders and pull the rocker cover and examine the inner surface for corrosion.  Unfortunately the only way to see the camshaft is to have at least one cylinder pulled.

Clarence

[Bravoman]

With that history I for sure wouldn’t do the deal without a true Mooney mechanic looking it over first. If it has lived in that part of the country it’s whole life that’s good for corrosion but don’t forget that rodents like hangar queens and their urine is very corrosive.

[Jhj123]

How damp was KABQ during that time frame?
was the plane stored indoors or out?
How many hours on the engine?
how interested in the plane are you if you wanted to move forwards...?

Best regards,
-a-

The engine has 675hrs

It spent most of its life in San Antonio TX and spent the last 5 years in NM.

Maybe it was this forum where someone stated not to chase a tail number. After reading the logs and this being my first plane, seems like I should search for another tail number.


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[Jhj123]

Looking at another plane, she spent more than half its life in FL and the rest in the Midwest. Logs show annual treatment with CorrosionX while in FL. How do you feel about a FL plane? I’m assuming a proper Mooney Service Center could identify the dreaded corrosion if any. Thanks


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[Bravoman]

27 minutes ago, Jhj123 said:

Looking at another plane, she spent more than half its life in FL and the rest in the Midwest. Logs show annual treatment with CorrosionX while in FL. How do you feel about a FL plane? I’m assuming a proper Mooney Service Center could identify the dreaded corrosion if any. Thanks


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If the aircraft has been hangared in Florida and properly cared for, especially with corrosion X or the like, should be no problem whatsoever.  Also, inland, especially in central and north Florida, much less of a concern.  Again, as mentioned above, never buy one of these planes without having an MSC or mechanic very familiar with what to look for, especially but not limited to tubular corrosion, doing the pre-buy. 

[geoffb]

337MC?  Looks nice in the photos.  673 since 2001 isn't terribly low usage.  That period from '17-'20 could be concerning.  Factory reman should have gotten new nickel cylinders, new cam and lifters.  Probably not a roller rocker engine.  This based on my E had a 2001 factory OH in it and they weren't converting all to rollers yet.  All engines are a crapshoot.  In my mind 3 years of sitting are better than 15 hours a year of 20 minute trips around the patch with an annual oil change.  

[Guest]

I don’t think that Lycoming offers anything other than steel cylinder with nitrite hardening.  Field overhauls offer more choices, good and bad.

Clarence

[geoffb]

The blue ones.....

So the bore is case-hardened steel?

 

[mike_elliott]

8 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Not really an active flyer.  You can borescope the cylinders and pull the rocker cover and examine the inner surface for corrosion.  Unfortunately the only way to see the camshaft is to have at least one cylinder pulled.

Clarence

Sometimes, you find an engine with an inspection hole already...

[carusoam]

8 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Sometimes, you find an engine with an inspection hole already...

Something didn’t work, Mike...

Could be a pic of a vented engine? 
Impromptu side Oiler installation?

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

JHJ,

When new to finding planes to own and fly...

Find an active Mooney... that is currently flying just makes sense...

When you are onto your second or third Mooney and want to take on some additional risk to gain the extra reward... pick up somebody’s forever-plane that hasn’t flown in... forever...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[MikeOH]

34 minutes ago, carusoam said:

JHJ,

When new to finding planes to own and fly...

Find an active Mooney... that is currently flying just makes sense...

When you are onto your second or third Mooney and want to take on some additional risk to gain the extra reward... pick up somebody’s forever-plane that hasn’t flown in... forever...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

 

Best regards,

-a-

Truer words were never spoken.  When it comes to a FIRST time owner, such as myself, it is DOUBLY true.  You do NOT want a problem plane to sort out when you have never owned before.  Some individuals may like the ' fix-up" process, but I suspect there are many planes sold at loss, or rotting on ramps, all because of a "good price," and "how hard/expensive" can it be?  Not for the newbie, IMHO.

[ZuluZulu]

LASAR has a pre-buy checklist on its website.  Available here.

[RobertGary1]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:50 PM, MikeOH said:

Truer words were never spoken.  When it comes to a FIRST time owner, such as myself, it is DOUBLY true.  You do NOT want a problem plane to sort out when you have never owned before.  Some individuals may like the ' fix-up" process, but I suspect there are many planes sold at loss, or rotting on ramps, all because of a "good price," and "how hard/expensive" can it be?  Not for the newbie, IMHO.

But also keep in mind that your $80k isn’t buying a new bmw it’s buying a 60 year old airplane. So expect that there will be things brought up and that the seller isn’t expected to fix everything. At the end of the day it’s an old plane and it can be safe without being perfect. 
 

-Robert