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6 minutes ago, rbridges said:

My buddy vacated his hangar and left several quarts of w100 plus. What's the verdict on a1200 hr O360?  I've been using a 20w50 with camguard the last few years. 

YAY.....   there was a report that said there is little difference in aviation oils, Might as well save money.

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Lots of people use this stuff as their main preferred oil.   There is a fair amount of opinion that multi-viscosity is less preferable.   I've recently switched to running this stuff year-round, but I live in the southwest where it doesn't really get very cold.

 

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13 minutes ago, rbridges said:

My buddy vacated his hangar and left several quarts of w100 plus. What's the verdict on a1200 hr O360?  I've been using a 20w50 with camguard the last few years. 

Several quarts or several cases?

If it's several quarts, I'd say use them to top off your XC during the warm months and don't worry about it. 

I've got w100plus in my engine now and nearly had a panic attack recently - parked away from home overnight during a cold snap (about 17F). I very seriously considered putting a quart of oil in a microwave. Fortunately temps had recovered to about 70F before departing and it was a non-issue. 

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10 minutes ago, toto said:

Several quarts or several cases?

If it's several quarts, I'd say use them to top off your XC during the warm months and don't worry about it. 

I've got w100plus in my engine now and nearly had a panic attack recently - parked away from home overnight during a cold snap (about 17F). I very seriously considered putting a quart of oil in a microwave. Fortunately temps had recovered to about 70F before departing and it was a non-issue.

Several quarts. I used to use w100 but IIRC the lowest temp was 40F. Living in georgia, it's not too much of am issue but I have flown from places when temps were in the 20s.  That's why I switched to a multi viscosity oil. It follows logic, but that doesn't guarantee anything. 

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Another, YAY.  I've been using W100+ exclusively for the three years I've owned...and the previous owner used it for the previous 13 years and  1000 hours.

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30 minutes ago, toto said:

Several quarts or several cases?

If it's several quarts, I'd say use them to top off your XC during the warm months and don't worry about it. 

I've got w100plus in my engine now and nearly had a panic attack recently - parked away from home overnight during a cold snap (about 17F). I very seriously considered putting a quart of oil in a microwave. Fortunately temps had recovered to about 70F before departing and it was a non-issue. 

I just came back from SoDak yesterday, and the overnight low temp was 38F.   The engine has w100+ in it right now.  It was about 46F by the time I started the engine and the starter turned it a lot slower than usual, but it started in two blades, so was a non-issue.    Pressure stabilized right away.   It might have been a problem if it was colder, but I'm glad to have not had to do that experiment.  ;)

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Everyone has their favorite oil. :)

Mike Busch likes single weight oils.

RAM claims that the semi-synthetic Aeroshell multi-weights are bad.

Phillips claims you can get lower oil consumption with it's all mineral 20W50.

Lycoming is agnostic -- as long as it meets the appropriate MIL-SPEC, oil is oil as far as they are concerned.

Some praise the LW-16702 additive in Aeroshell W100 Plus; some think it's bad stuff. Some prefer Camguard. Some sing the praises of Avblend. 

For what it's worth, I broke my factory rebuilt IO-360-A3B6 in on Aeroshell 100 and switched to Aeroshell W100 Plus for the first 120 hours and was consistently getting about 8 - 9 hours per quart. I switched to Phillips 20W50 with Camguard and now I get 12+ hours/quart. I've talked to others that had the opposite experience (worse oil consumption with Phillips).

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I’ve noticed after about 25-35 hours on XC oil, that the oil consumption goes up a little. From about a quart every 10-12 hr to a quart every 8.  I’ve heard it’s the VI improvers shearing down. Not a big deal. 

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My opinion is that it doesn't really matter what type of oil you use as long as the viscosity range is appropriate for the temperature and it is designed for an airplane engine.  For reference, I use 20w-50 XC with Camguard.  Why?

1.)  It works in all temperature ranges that I am likely to fly in.  I don't want to have to switch between summer vs. winter oil

2.)  It is cheaper than Aeroshell 15w-50.  This is a semi-synthetic, but I'm not sure you get much advantage to this due to the short drain intervals.  I run synthetic in my truck (and car before I went electric) because I could extend the drain intervals.

3.) Camguard:  I'm not 100% sold that it will really guard my cam, but I have a Lycoming engine so it can use all the guarding it can get.

The reason there is so much debate on this is that reasonable person could make a totally different choice.   If I found some Aeroshell 100, I'd probably just dump it is as makeup oil in the summer.

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I changed to Phillips Victory 100 AW SAE 50 with the Lyc additive. Consumption hasn't changed since I switched from Exxon Elite.

As a bonus, on this side of the planet it is much cheaper than Aeroshell. I assume this would be the same in the good ol' US of A.

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I’ve used aeroshell15w50 plus camguard for last decade or so prior used avblend known here as snake oil. Ownership includes three Mooney’s since 1986, 3000+ hours Mooney time, with no issues. Never had a cylinder replaced nor any other problems. Strongly considered changing to straight weight but considering my history decided against.

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Another, YAY.  I've been using W100+ exclusively for the three years I've owned...and the previous owner used it for the previous 13 years and  1000 hours.

In Ohio winters do you have to use a spoon to get it out? :)

 

-Robert

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10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

In Ohio winters do you have to use a spoon to get it out? :)

 

-Robert

As a native, lifelong southern Californian, I know not of what you speak:D

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15 hours ago, rbridges said:

since the w100+ has additives, would adding camguard still be ok?

You'd be doubling up on the phosphate additive, which I though I remember reading is in camguard as well.  I also think I remember camguard saying that it is fine adding it to the Lycoming additive, but W100 without the lycoming additive is significantly cheaper, so you're wasting a little money.

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I think I am in the minority here both in my opinion and my experience operating and rebuilding gasoline engines. Most of my mechanical experience is with automotive engines. I appreciate that the experience is not fully transferable, however the underlying science is fully transferable. I respect Mike Busch, and I have read his books, all of them. While reading his books I identified several areas where I think he is wrong; oil selection is a big one.

When I sat for the Bar exam to become licensed as a lawyer, I was already certified by the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence as a Master Automotive Technician as as a Master Engine Machinist.

Our engines usually operate with oil temperatures between 180 and 200 degrees Fahrenheit. The operating manual for my plane calls for an oil temperature of 150 degrees before take-off. At 150 degrees any aviation oil will flow adequately to lubricate the engine. The rub is the time between start and oil temperature coming up to 150 degrees; this is when most of the engine wear takes place. And this is why I use multi-grade oil, despite being based in Las Vegas, NV.

My previous Mooney was a C model, and after Chevron bought me a factory remanufactured engine in 1995, after break-in I operated it exclusively on Aeroshell 15w-50. I ran that engine to 1600 hours before selling the plane in 2014. The last five years before I sold the airplane mostly sat not flying. I am in touch with the current owner and the engine is doing fine.
The advantage of a multi+grade oil it flows the same at cold temperatures as at operating temperature. Multi-grade oils are an important reason that automotive engines routinely run more than 200k miles.

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Oil tends to be a highly debated topic on all forums of airplanes and cars.  It is interesting that though I use full synthetic oils in my street and race cars, I also know that my plane has 1950's mechanical technology.  Just getting into aviation, I thought why not put in the new oils?  They must be better than this old dino oil.  Well, the old oil tech goes hand in hand with old mechanical technology.  As far as what goes in, I like the W100 and I preheat my engine before I fire it up if the temps are below 65 degrees.  Seems to work very well year around.

I guess, if it is aviation designation, wet and slippery, it should work fine.

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53 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

Oil tends to be a highly debated topic on all forums of airplanes and cars. 

But, on the other hand, it's amazing how few catastrophic engine problems, or even minor problems are attributed to the brand/type of oil used.

If a particular brand/type of oil gets you beyond TBO, hasn't it done its job?

Does anyone have a story about a particular brand/type of oil destroying their engine?

(And, yes, I'm aware of the disaster caused by an early formula synthetic.)

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The Lycoming anti-scuffing additive (LW­16702) has been suspected of causing issues with Continental starter adapter clutches slipping, if my fuzzy memory serves me right.

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6 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

But, on the other hand, it's amazing how few catastrophic engine problems, or even minor problems are attributed to the brand/type of oil used.

If a particular brand/type of oil gets you beyond TBO, hasn't it done its job?

Does anyone have a story about a particular brand/type of oil destroying their engine?

(And, yes, I'm aware of the disaster caused by an early formula synthetic.)

Good questions. 

think I recall Mike Busch writing that the cam failures he’s seen were usually running Aeroshell 15W50. 

When I bought my 1994 M20J a little over 2 years ago, it had a little over 1000 hours on the original engine and the cam was spalled. The first owner had previously replaced the cam at about 500 hours. It had always run on Aeroshell 15W50. 

This doesn’t prove anything, but I decided to run my new engine on Phillips 20W50. Besides, it’s cheaper. :)

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