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2 EMags?


Jeph357

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So now that Lycoming has their name on them  does that open the door for 2 soild state emags? P/N for left and right are the same for the A1A. Curious 

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lycoming_eis.php?utm_campaign=STRATUS CHARGING PORT - USA&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

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If both are equally reliable and independent of each other...

Hooray! That means... Our engines are no longer 1930s technology... (alert lawnmower Jim!) :)


Who would like to be the last guy with a magneto bolted to his engine?

We used to fear computers... electrical devices... various components...

 

Today, we use cell phone technology while traveling the world...

I still wouldn’t want to be first...  high voltage on components is a pretty tough environment... it will be more comfortable as the 500hr mark gets surpassed by thousands of units....

:)

Best regards,

-a-

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Very curious...  Can it generate its own power?  Can it replace both mags?  I just sent one mag for a 500 hour and I'm installing Surefly on the other.  I would be happy to replace both, but I would want one to be independent of the electrical system.

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I am sure you can't install 2 eMags - for the simple reason the engine won't run that way after your alternator dies and the battery is drained shortly thereafter. As it is, many pilots never notice their charging system has failed till the radios and panel go dark - imagine if your plane also just became a glider when the lights go out! Before we ever see 2 of these installed I'd expect to see a very elaborate warning system and mag specific battery backups  to keep us airborne in the event of an electrical failure which could get very expensive.

The two different parts #'s aren't so much to replace both left and right mags together but to replace the specific different type of mag you would have on the left versus right such as an Impulse mag on the left side versus a plain mag on the right side.  For engines that use the same type of mag in both positions they list the same part number - I believe that is all that means and not a statement about replacing both together. 

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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

..

Hooray! That means... Our engines are no longer 1930s technology... (alert lawnmower Jim!) :)

You say that like it’s a good thing. I don’t see much good about a $4,000 mag. 
My slicks seem to work just fine  For two emags installed you could about pay for a gfc500  

-Robert 

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19 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You say that like it’s a good thing. I don’t see much good about a $4,000 mag. 
My slicks seem to work just fine  For two emags installed you could about pay for a gfc500  

-Robert 

The good...

We have a choice... 1930 tech or electronic mags... or one of each...

I did say it like it’s a good thing...

I have some relatively new 1930 tech mags, and will be keeping them for a while....
 

Keep in mind, my writing skills aren’t  all that good... I’ve been working on them for years... :)

The oddity of price... for some people around MS... 4amu is a lot... Somehow for others... it is for their forever-plane, and the electronic mag will last for the rest of their flying lives...

For most of us... It is important to look at the total lifecycle costs of the hardware...In the event we wear out a mag... or two...

I haven’t learned the economics yet... each time I get close, I realize having a plane isn’t a good financial investment... but it does travel quickly to grandma’s house...
 

Did I say how good Ceis fuel level sensors are...  a few times.... I don’t have them yet either... Mostly because that really nice engine monitor hasn’t made my personal affordability list either...

Sure... leaving the cost of devices out of the discussion probably could have been included...  by several people...

Robert, I’m glad you included the price... I haven’t even begun to look...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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Here's the Lycoming document. As far as replacing both mags with EIS, you will see that Lycoming thinks it's just fine as far as the engine is concerned ... BUT  it would be a major alteration to the type design for the aircraft requiring an STC. Since there is no STC currently available, you would have to apply for one -- probably not cost effective.

Skip

SI1569A_Installation_of_Lycoming_EIS.pdf

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12 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You say that like it’s a good thing. I don’t see much good about a $4,000 mag. 
My slicks seem to work just fine  For two emags installed you could about pay for a gfc500  

-Robert 

Interesting, the price/savings vs a traditional mag has actually been one of Surefly’s selling points.  Mine cost $1200.  It’s supposed to last through engine tbo.  With traditional mags, I’d have initial purchase plus 3 x 500hr IRAN.  The benefits of the advance are not much, but if Surefly makes tbo, it will be cheaper than a traditional mag.

Now they might eventually cost more if they have battery backup.

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Interesting:

At the engine level, an EIS may be installed replacing one or both of the engine’s traditional magnetos as a minor alteration documented with an engine logbook entry. Current FAA guidance is that the required airframe electrical system alterations needed for a single EIS installation may be accomplished by either minor or major alteration. The installer can decide which type of alteration is best for their application.

 

Replacing both magnetos with two EIS units is considered a major alteration that is a major change to the type design at the airframe level and would require an airframe type certificate, amended type certificate, or supplemental type certificate approval. When running dual EIS, the second EIS must be connected to a backup power source independent from the aircraft’s electrical system. A backup battery system such as the TCW TechnologiesTM Integrated Back-up Battery System has been evaluated by Lycoming and found to be acceptable for this requirement.

 

So, that is the answer...

-Don

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6 hours ago, hammdo said:

backup battery system such as the TCW TechnologiesTM Integrated Back-up Battery System has been evaluated by Lycoming and found to be acceptable for this requirement.

$400 more on top of the $1450 for each emag

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/tcwbackup11-12650-3.php

I understand the redundancy of only replacing 1 and I usually am of the  "if its not broke dont fix it", team but it would be a nice touch at an overhaul to have mags that stay on until the next overhaul. Should start seeing how they are really going to preform here in the near future as people actually build the time on them.  Here's another idea for a back up power source..... lol

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7 hours ago, kortopates said:

I am sure you can't install 2 eMags - for the simple reason the engine won't run that way after your alternator dies and the battery is drained shortly thereafter. As it is, many pilots never notice their charging system has failed till the radios and panel go dark - imagine if your plane also just became a glider when the lights go out! Before we ever see 2 of these installed I'd expect to see a very elaborate warning system and mag specific battery backups  to keep us airborne in the event of an electrical failure which could get very expensive.

The two different parts #'s aren't so much to replace both left and right mags together but to replace the specific different type of mag you would have on the left versus right such as an Impulse mag on the left side versus a plain mag on the right side.  For engines that use the same type of mag in both positions they list the same part number - I believe that is all that means and not a statement about replacing both together. 

What about airframes that already have two alternators and two batteries?

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8 hours ago, hammdo said:

Interesting:

At the engine level, an EIS may be installed replacing one or both of the engine’s traditional magnetos as a minor alteration documented with an engine logbook entry. Current FAA guidance is that the required airframe electrical system alterations needed for a single EIS installation may be accomplished by either minor or major alteration. The installer can decide which type of alteration is best for their application.

 

Replacing both magnetos with two EIS units is considered a major alteration that is a major change to the type design at the airframe level and would require an airframe type certificate, amended type certificate, or supplemental type certificate approval. When running dual EIS, the second EIS must be connected to a backup power source independent from the aircraft’s electrical system. A backup battery system such as the TCW TechnologiesTM Integrated Back-up Battery System has been evaluated by Lycoming and found to be acceptable for this requirement.

 

So, that is the answer...

-Don

In an E with one alternator, how does this backup get charged? If its charged from the one alternator does that count as being independent from the aircraft's electrical system? 

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