Ovation owners. Smallest runway you will land on?

[r0ckst4r]

Being a relatively new Ovation pilot I have relegated myself to a personal limit of 3000ft (well 2998 to be exact so I can go to Ocracoke Island ) to leave myself enough margin of error for a less than stellar landing.  There is another runway by me that is absolutely tiny at 2500ft and only 36 ft wide, essentially a city street.  Technically with good winds this is within the published limits of the aircraft but not quite my limits as of yet.  So this of course raised my curiosity and I wanted to hear from my fellow pilots.  What was the smallest runway you have managed to land on?

[Nick Pilotte]

I don’t have an O (yet), but I know of a few long bodies around me that are on 26-2800’ private airfields.  One is an Acclaim.  And here is video of it landing at one of the local airfields, LL10.  Runway 18/36 is 2537’x30.

 

[Hank]

Wow! Look how shiny the bottom of that wing is!

While I've spent very little time on the Left Coast, with 0 hours PIC there, we have members who keep / kept their Ovations at Oceano (L52?), or visited regularly. It's in the neighborhood of 2500-2600', I believe.

None came to visit during the 7 years that I based my Mooney at KHTW, 3000' long with trees at both ends. But now that the approaches have finally been cut back (after over 20 years of trying!), maybe someone will stop in. Of course, I moved 600 miles south, back to God's Country, six years ago . . . .

When I fly over to 33A on the Carolina border south of Asheville, I'm getting to be not just the only Mooney but sometimes the only airplane around at all. It's 2770 x 30', with a wide spot to turn around stuck off to one side or the other at each end, because there's no taxiway. But they built a nice, fancy, large hangar, so there's more there than I know about.

Happy flying! And don't land somewhere that's too short to take off from . . . . I've read NTSB reports about those who have, and the pilots were not always available for the interview. There's a writeup of a turbo Mooney who tried and hit a road embankment over in the Safety forum.    One of three souls lived to tell the tale, plus the friend on the ground filming the departure.

[carusoam]

Is that Dan’s handy videos?  @exM20K He is out in the Chicago area with an Acclaim...

One of the key things to do...

Is to really get to know your plane...

And follow-up with all the short field and soft field procedures... for both T/O and landing...

Transition Training is Really good for that...

My home away from home was 5B6 on Cape Cod... Runway is 2300’ Long and paved...
 

Energy management are the key words...

No room for 10 kias extra on the landing... with trees all around, combined with wind... it is important to know how the wind is going to affect your flight as you get closer to the ground....

Without enough information, you might make an approach that intentionally ends in a Go around... just to gather info pertinent to today’s landing...

 

T/Os also get good adhesion to procedure... most importantly, go vs. no go at the halfway point... if you haven’t reviewed your density altitude calculations... now is the time to get refamiliarized...

Landings also get good adhesion to procedure... know where you need to be on the ground... anywhere near the halfway point is an automatic Go around...do not wait, do not slow down...

If you are slow to execute the GA... going off the end of the runway may be better than stalling in the trees after the runway...
 

You don’t need to be super human to use a 2k’ long runway... You will want to follow the laws of physics closely...   And know where the emergency landing areas are after The tree line....

 

Suddenly the 310hp version of the IO550 really has value... 

To know your plane better... use a portable WAAS device in conjunction with your CloudAhoy app... measure your T/O and landing distances with accuracy to about 1’...

No stalling around...   

PP thoughts only... Not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Angelfall]

This have been my limit so far: Isla Contadora in  Panamá.  2100x30

[kmyfm20s]

Of course it depends a lot on altitude and wind. The shortest runway I land on is 2100’ is in Monument OR. Altitude of 2500’ msl. Occasionally I go to Fallbrook here in San Diego at 2160’ but it at an altitude of 700’ msl.

Edited September 30, 2020 by kmyfm20s

[M20S Driver]

I fly out of KPAO which is less than 2400 feet and I had to do my landing 3 days after buying the plane.   I did my first 10/15 landing in KPAO with power off over the fence and on the right speed with full flaps and speed brakes.  Winds and even winds with a little cross wind component were a big help. 

Don Kaye has a landing video and some literature that I found to be a gold mine in helping me. 

[carusoam]

+1 on Don Kaye’s landing details...

It really puts energy management into perspective for ordinary pilots...

If looking for his stuff... he has an Eponymous website...

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

Stabilized approach, correct speeds.......Oceano 2315’ sea level.    Plenty of runaway left after touchdown within first few hundred feat from threshold, with light breaking.

Again, stabile approach/speed control.  Practice on longer runway till you feel confident and comfortable.

Enjoy your Ovation.

[FlyingScot]

As others have amply described - I have no hard comfort limits - too many variables - but anything approaching 3K or less - extra scrutiny considering all factors. For example, Ocracoke at 3K’ at sea level - no issues (love that airport). Put that same runway in NM at a density altitude of 9000’ with pax and fuel - no way.  Obstructions? 280HP 2-blade vs 310 HP 3-top prop - huge difference in T/O performance. Good energy management and a stabilized approach - always, or go around. 

[FlyingScot]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

When I fly over to 33A on the Carolina border south of Asheville, I'm getting to be not just the only Mooney but sometimes the only airplane around at all. It's 2770 x 30', with a wide spot to turn around stuck off to one side or the other at each end...

I always thought the worse part of 33A was the broken asphalt not the length!  is it better now? 

[Raptor05121]

We have an Ovation owner based out of Cannon Creek, (15FL) which is 2300x 25 paved

[alexz]

6 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

We have an Ovation owner based out of Cannon Creek, (15FL) which is 2300x 25 paved

They do have nice 3500ft asphalt runway. 

[Raptor05121]

2 minutes ago, alexz said:

They do have nice 3500ft asphalt runway. 

its only 2600 and the first few hundred feet is a overrun on 18

[alexz]

6 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

its only 2600 and the first few hundred feet is a overrun on 18

Still really good clear path in front to allow for shallow approach

 

 

[Raptor05121]

Yup thats him. The dip will completely screw you up, too. Taking off it'll throw you into the air and landing will cause you to wheelbarrow

[Hank]

1 hour ago, FlyingScot said:

I always thought the worse part of 33A was the broken asphalt not the length!  is it better now? 

Not on my last trip. At least the holes in the patches have been patched. But it's kind of crumbly . . . .

My first night landing there was fun. Left Alabama around 6 CDT in the fall, arrived ~9 pm EDT to a single row of lights. Guessed it was the left edge, and on short final saw it was the right edge and went around. Second time greased it on and made the right turn to park.

[Davidv]

9 hours ago, Angelfall said:

This have been my limit so far: Isla Contadora in  Panamá.  2100x30

Wow, kind of like a large carrier landing with those cliffs on either side.

[Missile=Awesome]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

Wow! Look how shiny the bottom of that wing is!

While I've spent very little time on the Left Coast, with 0 hours PIC there, we have members who keep / kept their Ovations at Oceano (L52?), or visited regularly. It's in the neighborhood of 2500-2600', I believe.

None came to visit during the 7 years that I based my Mooney at KHTW, 3000' long with trees at both ends. But now that the approaches have finally been cut back (after over 20 years of trying!), maybe someone will stop in. Of course, I moved 600 miles south, back to God's Country, six years ago . . . .

When I fly over to 33A on the Carolina border south of Asheville, I'm getting to be not just the only Mooney but sometimes the only airplane around at all. It's 2770 x 30', with a wide spot to turn around stuck off to one side or the other at each end, because there's no taxiway. But they built a nice, fancy, large hangar, so there's more there than I know about.

Happy flying! And don't land somewhere that's too short to take off from . . . . I've read NTSB reports about those who have, and the pilots were not always available for the interview. There's a writeup of a turbo Mooney who tried and hit a road embankment over in the Safety forum.    One of three souls lived to tell the tale, plus the friend on the ground filming the departure.

Hank, I believe there was only one fatality in that 231 embankment incident (a rear seat passenger).  There were multiple issues (over weight/power issues/calculations by pilot)...It’s been a while, but that is my memory of incident.

[buddy]

I’ve landed at W13 - 1436 msl in the Shenandoah Valley, VA. 2000 ft long a few times in my “O2” 310hp. I can usually get it stopped in about 1600 ft with 2 on board and half tanks by the time I land, you just have to be on your game. Take off in the morning with about 70 gals. of gas and I use most of the runway.

[exM20K]

@carusoamyes, those are my videos that @Nick Pilotteposted. For the OP:

I find it's no big deal if:

1. i'm mindful of weight
2. I set hard, non-negotiable limits on winds, density altitude (for NA plane), and weight
3. i'm comfortable flying a <1.3 Vso final.
4. I have a minimum pattern speed. I won't go below 80 KIAS until final
5. I fly a wide pattern so I can be super stabilized.

(3) is key.  practice it.  take your plane up and see at what speed it stalls in landing configuration at various weights.  Understand that you *are* behind the power curve at  1.2 Vso, so practice slow flight at altitude in that configuration with power set for 500 FPM descent,  and see what a difference pushing the nose down a hair does to your glide path.  It is counter-intuitive and a very useful tool for managing glide path w/o chasing power all over the place.  Big power changes on final get everything destabilized and are therefore not a good thing.  

Pick your days carefully.  I cancelled a flight at LL10 today; 260 20G30 is not my cup of tea with a short, narrow 18/36 runway.  This flying thing is supposed to be fun, after all.

-dan

 

[Nick Pilotte]

@exM20K Please share more Mooney videos.  I love seeing local sights with a Mooney as the video vehicle.  Perhaps I could by an orientation to Mooney ride from you too.  I’ll buy fuel and burgers. 

[flyer338]

Thank you all for the videos. Am I missing something; it looks like in the video posted by alexz it looks like the cowl flaps are closed for the entire video.

[FlyingScot]

14 minutes ago, flyer338 said:

Thank you all for the videos. Am I missing something; it looks like in the video posted by alexz it looks like the cowl flaps are closed for the entire video.

O's don't have them.

Or should I say....Cowl Flaps? They don't need no stinkin' cowl flaps!

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, FlyingScot said:

O's don't have them.

Or should I say....Cowl Flaps? They don't need no stinkin' cowl flaps!

Like my C, Ovations all have cowl flaps. They are in a single, fixed position and cannot be moved except on the ground, cowl off, with a wrench or two.