The Mother of all Annuals

[Will.iam 99]

11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

That's great news. Looking forward to it.

 

Gsxrpilot, when you were starting to plan for this conversion was there any savings to flying the plane up to Jewell aviation and having them do the overhaul of the engine there then thus saving on shipping and handling? Or was the extra expense minimal?  

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

Just now, Will.iam said:

Gsxrpilot, when you were starting to plan for this conversion was there any savings to flying the plane up to Jewell aviation and having them do the overhaul of the engine there then thus saving on shipping and handling? Or was the extra expense minimal?  

The difference is probably $1000 which on a big job like this, is pretty insignificant. It might be a good idea to fly it to Jewell and let him do the R&R on the engine. There is some anecdotal evidence that the service might be quicker if you fly it to him. So if it's just the engine overhaul, and if you don't have a long relationship with an existing shop, I'd probably fly it to him. Another one of our friends here in Denver is likely going to use Jewell in the near future and I've recommended he fly it there. There have also been a few engine lost in shipping lately... 

I elected not to fly it to Jewell for two reasons. I'm also doing the Encore conversion at the same time and wanted JD (a shop that knows what they're doing with the conversion) to handle that part of it. I was also getting an annual and some other upgrades done. I've got a long history with JD and the bill is never a surprise. So I wasn't going to take the risk of a new shop going over my airplane on a $50K+ project.

BTW... I see you're at Hidden Valley. I learned to fly there quite a few years ago. That is still probably the shortest runway where I've landed the Mooney. Landing 17 (it used to be 16) you have about a 50' patch to put the wheels down. Any longer and you'll never land as the runway is dropping away from you, any shorter and you auger into the side of the hill.

My brother and I at 5TX0 with my first Mooney, having just picked it up.

[MIm20c 1,325]

Shipping engines is really cheap so do what’s most convenient. Having said that jewel is as cheap (and fast) as it gets so having them do everything would be a great choice. 

[Will.iam 99]

8 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The difference is probably $1000 which on a big job like this, is pretty insignificant. It might be a good idea to fly it to Jewell and let him do the R&R on the engine. There is some anecdotal evidence that the service might be quicker if you fly it to him. So if it's just the engine overhaul, and if you don't have a long relationship with an existing shop, I'd probably fly it to him. Another one of our friends here in Denver is likely going to use Jewell in the near future and I've recommended he fly it there. There have also been a few engine lost in shipping lately... 

I elected not to fly it to Jewell for two reasons. I'm also doing the Encore conversion at the same time and wanted JD (a shop that knows what they're doing with the conversion) to handle that part of it. I was also getting an annual and some other upgrades done. I've got a long history with JD and the bill is never a surprise. So I wasn't going to take the risk of a new shop going over my airplane on a $50K+ project.

BTW... I see you're at Hidden Valley. I learned to fly there quite a few years ago. That is still probably the shortest runway where I've landed the Mooney. Landing 17 (it used to be 16) you have about a 50' patch to put the wheels down. Any longer and you'll never land as the runway is dropping away from you, any shorter and you auger into the side of the hill.

My brother and I at 5TX0 with my first Mooney, having just picked it up.

Wow that is where the new gas pump is located.  Nice Mooney.  So you know Tom Tweedale then. Most flight hours of any person i know at 55,000 and still going, taught me how to fly when i was 16. The man is flying literally just about everyday. If you think it’s a tricky stripe today, back when we first moved there in 79 the runway was only 2000ft and there were 2 great big oak trees on the south end that my dads m20j cleared with only a few feet  of space on either side. A Neighbohr was flying a v-35 bonanza in there at night with no lights or reflectors. They got together and  convinced another neighbor to install 2 red lights on top of his hanger that was parallel to the runway so at night it was surprisingly easy to find those 2 lights and line them up which then allowed your landing light to illuminate the runway area. Eventually other members pushed to put reflectors down but worried about some inexperienced pilot trying to land there at night if they saw the reflectors not realizing the hazards of the hill in the middle of the runway or the cliff at the end of 35 or the trees at 17. The tree on the west side died close to 20 years ago but the other tree just got struck my lighting in 2018 and split the tree so Hidden Valley cut down the rest and removed it. I was sad to see it go. Right now the runway has sunk down due to foundation settling where the old runway had a ditch at the end of 17 before we extended the length making a speed bump that will pop me back into the air if i land before it. So i aim for landing pass it on the original 2000ft part to keep from hammering my gear into the wing.   Hopefully hidden valley fixes that sooner than later but who knows. 

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

9 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Wow that is where the new gas pump is located.  Nice Mooney.  So you know Tom Tweedale then. Most flight hours of any person i know at 55,000 and still going, taught me how to fly when i was 16. The man is flying literally just about everyday. If you think it’s a tricky stripe today, back when we first moved there in 79 the runway was only 2000ft and there were 2 great big oak trees on the south end that my dads m20j cleared with only a few feet  of space on either side. A Neighbohr was flying a v-35 bonanza in there at night with no lights or reflectors. They got together and  convinced another neighbor to install 2 red lights on top of his hanger that was parallel to the runway so at night it was surprisingly easy to find those 2 lights and line them up which then allowed your landing light to illuminate the runway area. Eventually other members pushed to put reflectors down but worried about some inexperienced pilot trying to land there at night if they saw the reflectors not realizing the hazards of the hill in the middle of the runway or the cliff at the end of 35 or the trees at 17. The tree on the west side died close to 20 years ago but the other tree just got struck my lighting in 2018 and split the tree so Hidden Valley cut down the rest and removed it. I was sad to see it go. Right now the runway has sunk down due to foundation settling where the old runway had a ditch at the end of 17 before we extended the length making a speed bump that will pop me back into the air if i land before it. So i aim for landing pass it on the original 2000ft part to keep from hammering my gear into the wing.   Hopefully hidden valley fixes that sooner than later but who knows. 

Yep, I got my Private and Instrument from Tom. I'd been interviewing CFI's and flew with a couple of them and then found Tom. I always say on top of being the consummate teacher, Tom had the confidence in his own skills, to let me fly the airplane. Once I could taxi without knocking over mail boxes, Tom almost never touched the controls again. Once after a long and difficult lesson, I was trying to get back to 5TX0 and land 16. I was long and went around. The second time I was long again and went around. I told Tom I was tired and just didn't have it in me to make this landing. He sat there napping with the arms crossed and ankles crossed, leaning up against the door, and said, "I'm getting paid by the hour, you'll figure it out eventually." I nailed the third attempt easily. His confidence gave me confidence. 

[Will.iam 99]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yep, I got my Private and Instrument from Tom. I'd been interviewing CFI's and flew with a couple of them and then found Tom. I always say on top of being the consummate teacher, Tom had the confidence in his own skills, to let me fly the airplane. Once I could taxi without knocking over mail boxes, Tom almost never touched the controls again. Once after a long and difficult lesson, I was trying to get back to 5TX0 and land 16. I was long and went around. The second time I was long again and went around. I told Tom I was tired and just didn't have it in me to make this landing. He sat there napping with the arms crossed and ankles crossed, leaning up against the door, and said, "I'm getting paid by the hour, you'll figure it out eventually." I nailed the third attempt easily. His confidence gave me confidence. 

Nice to know Tom hasn’t changed much. He was the same with me. He definitely gives you enough rope to hang yourself. But you feel like you are soloing the first day because you are doing it all right away. 

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

It's time for an update.  She flies.

34 minutes over the top of the airport. 

Full power is now 39" at 2600 RPM. We're still dialing in the fuel flow, so don't have that yet.

We have a short list of squawks to work through but should be finished up and heading to Denver by the weekend.

 

[Yooper Rocketman 2,852]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

IWe have a short list of squawks to work through but should be finished up and heading to Denver by the weekend.

I hope you're dropping someone off in KIMT on your way ?! 

Tom

[Will.iam 99]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

It's time for an update.  She flies.

34 minutes over the top of the airport. 

Full power is now 39" at 2600 RPM. We're still dialing in the fuel flow, so don't have that yet.

We have a short list of squawks to work through but should be finished up and heading to Denver by the weekend.

 

Hey gsxrpilot i thought on engine breakin you fly wot for the first flight, if so why does flight aware have your speed going up and down with little change in alt? Are you already done with the engine breakin or are you doing a different method? Just curious. 

[ReconMax 105]

It looks like when he is going south, he is going slower and then north faster so, I'm guessing he had a near 30kts wind out of the south. 

 

Congratulations on getting her in the Air @gsxrpilot!

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

2 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Hey gsxrpilot i thought on engine breakin you fly wot for the first flight, if so why does flight aware have your speed going up and down with little change in alt? Are you already done with the engine breakin or are you doing a different method? Just curious. 

Yeah @ReconMax called it. There was a 30+ knot wind at 3000 ft. And I was just flying in circles. 

I flew it to San Marcos and back today, just a short 15 minutes each way. The gear warning is now adjusted correctly, but I don't think I've got enough fuel flowing at full rich. We'll dial it up a little bit tomorrow. We've got to fit gear doors and then I'll try to put 2 or 3 hours on it tomorrow evening.

[Will.iam 99]

8 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah @ReconMax called it. There was a 30+ knot wind at 3000 ft. And I was just flying in circles. 

I flew it to San Marcos and back today, just a short 15 minutes each way. The gear warning is now adjusted correctly, but I don't think I've got enough fuel flowing at full rich. We'll dial it up a little bit tomorrow. We've got to fit gear doors and then I'll try to put 2 or 3 hours on it tomorrow evening.

Ah makes since. I have a neighbor that is gettin a new reman engine put on his cessna and their instructions are to run it easy for 15 mins then let cool down then another 15 then cool down. I think it’s strange as everything I’ve heard was to go wot and oil use should stabilize in about an hour. Anybody else hear of that method? 

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

11 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Ah makes since. I have a neighbor that is gettin a new reman engine put on his cessna and their instructions are to run it easy for 15 mins then let cool down then another 15 then cool down. I think it’s strange as everything I’ve heard was to go wot and oil use should stabilize in about an hour. Anybody else hear of that method? 

Continentals and Lycomings are a little different from each other. Continental instructions are to run at greater than 70% power and keep the cylinders on the warm side.

 

[shawnd 136]

Congrats @gsxrpilot! You have been waiting for this for a while!

@Will.iam I don't think taking it easy is a good choice for engine break-in. Continental recommends reducing time on ground/low power to a minimum, and running it at least 75% power for the first hour and then alternating between 65% power. You want the richer mixture to produce the cylinder pressures that helps with properly seating the rings.

Pretty good documentation at https://www.airpowerinc.com/downloads/PDFs/TCMEngineBreakInFlightTips.pdf

 

[shawnd 136]

Lycoming also has similar advice:

A new, rebuilt or overhauled engine should receive the same start, warm-up and preflight checks as any other engine. There are some aircraft owners and pilots who would prefer to use low power settings for cruise during the break-in period. This is not recommended. A good break-in requires that the piston rings expand sufficiently to seat with the cylinder walls. This seating of the ring with the cylinder wall will only occur when pressures inside the cylinder are great enough to cause expansion of the piston rings. Pressures in the cylinder only become great enough for a good break-in when power settings above 65% are used.

https://www.lycoming.com/content/hard-facts-about-engine-break

[carusoam 12,846]

Paul,

What is the Max FF you are seeing?

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Paul,

What is the Max FF you are seeing?

Best regards,

-a-

We're still dialing this in and so I'm hesitant to say. When we had the external instrumentation attached to measure fuel flow, (I don't recall the name of the instrument), we were seeing 24 gph max FF. But on my JPI I'm only seeing 19 to 20 gph. We will increase the max fuel flow to get to 25.5 gph and adjust the K factor on the JPI to reflect that number accurately.

[RLCarter 2,055]

14 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah @ReconMax called it. There was a 30+ knot wind at 3000 ft.

Gotta love Texas winds this time of the year

[Will.iam 99]

Thanks yall for for the links. I’ll show him the articles that’s the best i can do. That’s the fun of ownership. You get to operate the aircraft how ever you chose and the consequences will show up in your wallet.  

[gsxrpilot 12,135]

And.... it's finished.  Well almost...

Sept 30, 2020 to April 11, 2021

The 252 Encore is back in my hangar in Denver. There are still a couple of minor squawks that I'll work through over the next week or so. But all in all, it's running strong, not leaking/burning oil, and now has 1060 lbs useful load.

I'll try to get a full PIREP out this week to detail the reasons for the length of time, the mods done, current squawks, etc.

 

[carusoam 12,846]

All the power and all the UL!

Tremendous performance!

Bravo!

Go Encore!

Encore, Encore!

-a-

[Will.iam 99]

On 4/12/2021 at 9:24 AM, gsxrpilot said:

And.... it's finished.  Well almost...

Sept 30, 2020 to April 11, 2021

The 252 Encore is back in my hangar in Denver. There are still a couple of minor squawks that I'll work through over the next week or so. But all in all, it's running strong, not leaking/burning oil, and now has 1060 lbs useful load.

I'll try to get a full PIREP out this week to detail the reasons for the length of time, the mods done, current squawks, etc.

 

Wow almost 5 1/2 months. Did not realized the extent of time that had elapsed since you started this project. Was there any time that could have been cut out or is that what to expect when converting to an encore?