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On 10/1/2020 at 12:13 AM, carusoam said:

For some reason Continental cylinders can get their compression rings to align, and the compression reads somewhat low, randomly...

So... if you get a low compression reading, it doesn’t necessarily mean take immediate action, or replace the cylinder... It does give a good heads-up warning...

There has always been a little bit of a mechanic's controversy about compression testing Conti's as opposed to other engines.  I have lost track of all the details, but in broad terms the Conti test is more of a "hold pressure" test and the normal test is a "peak momentary" test. Conti's can go as low as 45 psi as I recall, because of the testing difference. But if the engine is at 1800 plus and oil everywhere, and tired, it is probably time. Mine is still sprightly at 19+ but I did an IRAN at about 1200 and a new turbo at about 700. I think part of the problem with the engines in the pre-2000's aircraft is that pilots were flying them in accordance with the POH, and the POH allowed things like 460 CHT's and operation right at peak for "Best Power." That will take it out of any engine very fast, even if the thing is well run for the next 1200+ hours by a new owner.

Hope it turns out really well for you Paul. I know when mine is gone for a protracted period I don't like it.  It can sit in the hangar and for whatever reason I can't fly for a month or more and I am fine with it, but if I don't have the choice it is, well, depressing.

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Well, we left N252AD in Smithville, TX in the capable hands of JD and Laura Casteel at SWTA. It's time for the big one.  Her engine made it to 1830 hours on the original cylinders and turbo. But

It's time for an update.  She flies. 34 minutes over the top of the airport.  Full power is now 39" at 2600 RPM. We're still dialing in the fuel flow, so don't have that yet. We h

Time for a quick update... When I decided to buy a turbo Mooney, I was told all the horror stories about how expensive the engines are and how they never make TBO and typically need a top and tur

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2 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Hope it turns out really well for you Paul. I know when mine is gone for a protracted period I don't like it.  It can sit in the hangar and for whatever reason I can't fly for a month or more and I am fine with it, but if I don't have the choice it is, well, depressing.

Thanks, it's definitely difficult knowing that I'm completely without an airplane at the moment. 

But I'm enjoying learning to fly tailwheels and possibly some other things as well. I'm also studying for the FOI exam. 

As of this morning, there is an RV-3 parked in my hangar. It's not mine, but the owner, an AirForce B52 driver, said if I could get checked out in another RV taildragger, he'd let me fly it. So there's another flying project to work towards. 

I'm also trying to find someone with a big wheel bush plane, like a 180/185 who'd like to share a hangar and swap flight time for Mooney time when 252AD is back with a new engine and Encore conversion.

So there is a lot going on...

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3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Thanks, it's definitely difficult knowing that I'm completely without an airplane at the moment. 

But I'm enjoying learning to fly tailwheels and possibly some other things as well. I'm also studying for the FOI exam. 

As of this morning, there is an RV-3 parked in my hangar. It's not mine, but the owner, an AirForce B52 driver, said if I could get checked out in another RV taildragger, he'd let me fly it. So there's another flying project to work towards. 

I'm also trying to find someone with a big wheel bush plane, like a 180/185 who'd like to share a hangar and swap flight time for Mooney time when 252AD is back with a new engine and Encore conversion.

So there is a lot going on...

Yeah I got a taildragger endorsement one winter for something to do, but it wasn't the same. Hard to fly out to CO in a Champ. In fact, a few years earlier I had run in to that instructor flying that plane from somewhere out west back to MN to use at their facility for instruction. He said it was going to take two days at least:(.  I was home for supper. But a big wheel bush plane, now THAT would be fun!!

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20 hours ago, jlunseth said:

Hope it turns out really well for you Paul. I know when mine is gone for a protracted period I don't like it.  It can sit in the hangar and for whatever reason I can't fly for a month or more and I am fine with it, but if I don't have the choice it is, well, depressing.

This,  can't stand birdy not being in the Hangar,  really makes me irritable.

Hope you get her back soon

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13 minutes ago, McMooney said:

This,  can't stand birdy not being in the Hangar,  really makes me irritable.

Hope you get her back soon

The toughest part is the personal restraint not to bug the people doing the work too much.  I’ve found there is a fine line...

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I have an idea for you Paul. Go to APS in Pheonix and take their Upset Recovery training. I wanted to do that for years and finally did it. What a thrill! And I learned a ton, especially about upset recovery in IMC. Its pricey but very good and very thorough. You get to fly rolls, loops, hammerheads, multiple full spins, Cuban, Split S, Immelmann, even Lomcovák if you want to and its you doing the flying. That's what I did last year when my aircraft "caught COVID" (got stranded in the shop). Thinking of going back this year because the annual is going to be long again for avionics. Anyway, best wishes.

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Hi Paul,

I am doing the Encore Conversion also.  I ordered my engine in July and it should arrive at my shop on or about Monday November 3.  I had 2300 hours on the engine with all good compressions.  My oil consumption went up and the engine has been making metal.  Took it in for annual and they found oil coming from the turbo leaking into the intakes.  Scavenge pump was failing.  Since the first overhaul was a field overhaul by the prior owner, I too bit the bullet and upgraded to the SB engine and the Encore conversion kit.  I think the shop is still waiting on the air speed indicator.  I also have changed over to the MT propeller to save another 20 pounds.  Problem I am facing is my shop Top Gun was exposed to Covid and they sent everyone home for a week.

N252RD

Robert 

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  • 2 months later...

I've been getting a lot of requests for an update on this Mother of all Annuals... But in my mind, there really isn't much to say about it other than it's still in progress... But I'm there are details that might help someone else contemplating this work or with it coming up, ready or not.

I should get a couple of disclaimers out of the way first.

  • This is a hobby, not a business and therefore time is NOT money. So I've opted for the slower/cheaper option over the faster/expensive path whenever possible.
  • I keep an eye towards what increases the value of my Mooney and what doesn't.

JD got the engine boxed up ready for shipment to Jewell very quickly, but didn't ship it until David was ready to get started on it. So it ended up going to Jewell the second week of December. And then there is the holiday season... It was disappointing to wait so long, but all the engine shops were backed up and running behind. And Jewell was no different. The faster/expensive option here would have been to buy an engine months ago and have it waiting when the annual started in September. I decided not to do that obviously.

So here we are at the middle of January. All the engine components have checked out and the rebuilding is under way. I'll be keeping the case, crank, and cylinders. The turbo, waste gate, fuel pump, and governor, have all checked out, but are out for overhaul and should be done this week. JD thinks he'll have the engine back in his shop by the end of this month.

Other work that has been going on in the mean time at SWTA:

  • Vacuum speed brakes changed out for electric brakes - done
  • Larger dual puck wheel brakes installed with doors and other components - done
  • Counter weights for Encore weight increase, installed. Wingtips modified to accommodate new weights. - in progress
  • Glareshield - with Hector at AeroComfort for re-covering
  • JPI EDM-900 - remapped with Encore limits - done
  • Minor leak in left fuel tank - patched
  • Panel mounted compass - in progress
  • Annual - will be completed after engine is reinstalled

Fingers crossed, I'll be in Texas flying and breaking in the engine sometime in Feb. And we'll fly it to Mexico for a week on the beach in March.

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Other work that has been going on in the mean time at SWTA:

  • Vacuum speed brakes changed out for electric brakes - done

Congrats! So the vacuum pump is finally gone.

I have seen where the vacuum/electric speed brake swap has had new holes in the wing due to a location change recommendation. Did you have to do something like this, or were you able to use the existing openings?

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7 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Congrats! So the vacuum pump is finally gone.

I have seen where the vacuum/electric speed brake swap has had new holes in the wing due to a location change recommendation. Did you have to do something like this, or were you able to use the existing openings?

We were able to use the existing openings. 

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23 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Congrats! So the vacuum pump is finally gone.

I have seen where the vacuum/electric speed brake swap has had new holes in the wing due to a location change recommendation. Did you have to do something like this, or were you able to use the existing openings?

For what it's worth, I got some information on how this works when speaking with Precise Flight recently.

The 100 series came in 3 variants -- cables with a lever, vacuum, and electric. Retrofit kits were made so you could move to electric because they have the same hole pattern. Information I got from them in December was once the retrofits are gone (I think all/most are spoken for) and there will not likely be more because they have the 2000 series now.

The 2000 series is the new one, electric only, different hole and screw pattern entirely. Lots of new features. Would most likely require a reskin if you had the 100 series already.

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Your pireps are a blast to read Paul!

Good luck with the next steps...

What are the typical break-in flights like with a TC’d engine..?

Best regards,

-a-

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On 1/18/2021 at 8:08 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Other work that has been going on in the mean time at SWTA:

  • Panel mounted compass - in progress

Fingers crossed, I'll be in Texas flying and breaking in the engine sometime in Feb. And we'll fly it to Mexico for a week on the beach in March.

Paul, I don't know how I missed this thread last year! Congrats - 2AD is going to be on helluva bird once she is done. Vacation in Mexico on the beach is probably how she expects to be shown off :lol:

PS. What panel mounted compass are you going with? My current whiskey compass needs some TLC and looking at options.

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Paul, I don't know how I missed this thread last year! Congrats - 2AD is going to be on helluva bird once she is done. Vacation in Mexico on the beach is probably how she expects to be shown off :lol:
PS. What panel mounted compass are you going with? My current whiskey compass needs some TLC and looking at options.

I went with an Airpath, it really cleans up the view (compass replaced ammeter which I no longer needed because JPI 900 ).

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3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I went with an Airpath, it really cleans up the view (compass replaced ammeter which I no longer needed because JPI 900 ).

Yeah that sure does clean up the view. I haven't replaced my primary gauges yet so need to hang on to the relics. I was thinking about the Precision PAI-700.

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On 9/28/2020 at 9:55 AM, gsxrpilot said:

This year's annual will include an engine overhaul and Encore conversion. The engine, turbo, waste gate, governor, and fuel pump will all go to Jewell Aviation for overhaul and conversion from an MB to an SB engine.

That's gonna cost like buying a new (used) airplane. Congrats! :)

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13 minutes ago, Immelman said:

Boy that reminds me of another option... the MD80 magnetic compass. In back of the cockpit, seen with a rear view mirror. If its good enough for Douglas why not for us mounted in the hat rack? :)

 

FAR 25.1303 simply says it must be visible from each pilot station and FAR 25.1327 says it must not be affected by vibration or magnetic fields. I'm not an A&P/IA, but seems like it they give you some room to be creative.

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Time for a quick update...

When I decided to buy a turbo Mooney, I was told all the horror stories about how expensive the engines are and how they never make TBO and typically need a top and turbo at the half way point. I thought that if I installed the best engine monitor I could, and learned to use it correctly, and followed it religiously, the turbo engine should last as long as any other engine. So shortly after buying N252AD, I had SWTA install an EDM-900 engine monitor, I went to Ada, OK for the weekend APS class to learn how to use it, I created a Savvy Analysis account and started uploading all my engine data. And I fly it correctly based on the data from the engine monitor. I bought the airplane with 1200 hours SMOH and it still had the original cylinders and turbo. The last 630 hours are mine.

I just got the final bill from Jewell and we're only replacing one cylinder. Five out of the six cylinders will be going back on for round two.

I also just got the final verdict on the turbo. We'd sent it out for overhaul as well. It took half a day for them to report back that the turbo is pristine and needs nothing. "Just put it back on."

I'm now more convinced than ever. A modern data logging engine monitor and the education to know how to use it, is the best investment you can make in your engine. I'm looking forward to the effect on the total life of an engine, not just the last 600 hours.

 

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Jewell did my overhaul as well. Very pleased with them. A turbo Mooney is great if it’s operated correctly like you have. I think a huge benefactor is actually understanding the EDM 900 or other engine monitors. That’s one area where I lack all knowledge and the ADA class would definitely be a must for me. I have never really understood all the lean of peak or rich of peak techniques. As for me in my 201 I would generally cruise 5-7k and have the flow from 11.5-12.5 gph. No technique at all and definitely not the way to do it. When I was getting my private pilot in the archer or warrior I would pull the mixture back until it started running rough and then enrich   Looking at getting an Ovation I will definitely learn the proper way.

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Time for a quick update...

When I decided to buy a turbo Mooney, I was told all the horror stories about how expensive the engines are and how they never make TBO and typically need a top and turbo at the half way point. I thought that if I installed the best engine monitor I could, and learned to use it correctly, and followed it religiously, the turbo engine should last as long as any other engine. So shortly after buying N252AD, I had SWTA install an EDM-900 engine monitor, I went to Ada, OK for the weekend APS class to learn how to use it, I created a Savvy Analysis account and started uploading all my engine data. And I fly it correctly based on the data from the engine monitor. I bought the airplane with 1200 hours SMOH and it still had the original cylinders and turbo. The last 630 hours are mine.

I just got the final bill from Jewell and we're only replacing one cylinder. Five out of the six cylinders will be going back on for round two.

I also just got the final verdict on the turbo. We'd sent it out for overhaul as well. It took half a day for them to report back that the turbo is pristine and needs nothing. "Just put it back on."

I'm now more convinced than ever. A modern data logging engine monitor and the education to know how to use it, is the best investment you can make in your engine. I'm looking forward to the effect on the total life of an engine, not just the last 600 hours.

 

Congratulations!

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