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8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:


Of course the TBM gets it’s speed at high altitudes.

Sure, but that's all part of the power equation.  Everyone quotes max cruise numbers at the optimum altitude, and it takes a lot of power to get way up in the flight levels.

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Hey JT! I wanted to thank you for your kind note and words of encouragement. In fact, I located this post on my own a while back and meant to respond but as you can imagine it was easy to get sid

Full list of tech pubs is available here: https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Mooney-Technical-Publications.pdf Documentation has a real world cost to author and maintain, we should be h

Nothing nefarious about "last."  We're working on better - faster, more useful load. Stand by. Jonny

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On 1/15/2021 at 12:34 AM, Vance Harral said:

Sure, but that's all part of the power equation.  Everyone quotes max cruise numbers at the optimum altitude, and it takes a lot of power to get way up in the flight levels.

There’s  3 ways to get more speed: more power,less drag, higher altitude.  The easiest way to boost speed is raised the service ceiling.  The Acclaim is limited in altitude, the question is that a engine limitation or are unpressurized planes limited to lower altitudes? 

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Are we talking about saving Mooney as a company, or building cool niche airplanes?  Mooney needs to produce an easy (low cost to build) airframe, that weighs less, lifts more and has the creature comforts and safety features people want and is affordable to own and maintain.

While a Jet A burning diesel sounds cool,they're heavy and usually require liquid cooling which adds more to the complexity and empty weight.  A Lycoming engine that can burn premium auto fuel makes just as much sense.

Clarence

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48 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Are we talking about saving Mooney as a company, or building cool niche airplanes?  Mooney needs to produce an easy (low cost to build) airframe, that weighs less, lifts more and has the creature comforts and safety features people want and is affordable to own and maintain.

While a Jet A burning diesel sounds cool,they're heavy and usually require liquid cooling which adds more to the complexity and empty weight.  A Lycoming engine that can burn premium auto fuel makes just as much sense.

Clarence

The discussion over in diesel forums is that a diesel engine is a big deal in parts of the world where avgas is either shockingly expensive or simply unavailable.

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18 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

The discussion over in diesel forums is that a diesel engine is a big deal in parts of the world where avgas is either shockingly expensive or simply unavailable.

And in those places, often the economics and airspace for pro-pilot training favor shipping the trainees to the USA.  

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48 minutes ago, exM20K said:

And in those places, often the economics and airspace for pro-pilot training favor shipping the trainees to the USA.  

Europe is a place where avgas is crazy expensive.  There are people in Europe who like single engine owner-planes vs single engine trainer planes.  A few of them are members here on Mooney space.  I would think that in Europe, diesel, even though more expensive hull value, would be very competitive vs avgas burners because of the significant difference in fuel costs.  I am not talking COBs such as myself who buy 30 year old used airplanes but we are taking people who can buy new airplanes.

That Diamond DA50 diesel looks interesting and a strong competitor in this category.

A lycoming mogas burner sounds very interesting, but we aren't talking car gas are we - mogas is the no ethanol stuff that is pretty rare really.  An airplane that could fly on car gas in the usa would be really neat but then are we in practice talking about tinkering 100 gallons ourselves from the local citgo to the airport to fill up?  And then what of when on travel - all you can find is avgas on the go.  So for the time being it wouldn't make a big difference, but clearly it is an interesting feature and would be a big deal if and when avgas goes away.

There actually is a no-ethanal car premium 91 octane car gas station pump nearby here.  I suppose if I had an airplane that could burn it, I would be lying that stuff and tinkering it 3 miles to the airport.  I think its something like $2.5?  It would be more fun to taxi the airplane down Main Street right up to the pump and ask for full service.  Check the oil and clean the windows please.

Anyway I do think a diesel option would be unique and a mostly unfilled niche.  There is only the DA50 as a competitor and still it is a somewhat different airplane in the high performance single category - it is slower and a "sort of" 6 (or was it 5?) seater/. But it is nice.

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IMHO, GA is a market that is saturated with several manufactures all with a high barrier to entry. That barrier is training and aircraft cost. The reason Cirrus is selling well is twofold: 1) the advertised safety benefit of BRS and 2) the safety culture Cirrus built. Cirrus offers new and pre-owned owner training as part of the purchase. They control the training CFIs get to call themselves CSIPs, and they have a very active Cirrus culture. 

Prior to the new ownership, Mooney was not available, nor part of cultivating a Mooney safety and/or lifestyle culture. A booth at an Airshow is primarily for targeting new owners, and in today's day of social media, I don't think that is really an effective outreach strategy. Shunning the vast majority of Mooney owners (ones who own older models) is a great way to push them to other brands when they are ready to upgrade to a newer airframe. 

Bottom line: 4-seat single engine piston aircraft are luxury items for the vast majority of owners. Sure we justify the cost with things like, "I don't need to go through TA, or I want the flexibility in travel, etc." So what draws in someone to spend between $600-900k for a plane? Simply put: lifestyle. Manufactures that make a desirable product, target advertising to their demographic, and give owners a sense of belonging do well.  

With all that said, this is a new plane - new day with Mooney. My hat's off to Jonny and team for their outreach on MS. My humble recommendation going forward: Rebrand with one or two models that have something that older Mooney's do not. Things like more automation, safety features, speed, or efficiency. As part of that rebranding - tie the current Mooney owners to the Brand and culture. Sort of like Telsa, most of us our Mooneyiacs and we'll help spread #Mooneylife (BTW - that hashtag currently isn't even a thing).  Just my humble thoughts as a two-time Mooney owner ('65E, '00 Bravo).

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3 minutes ago, Danb said:

I thought flightaware was in mph on the map display and knots and mph on the graph? 300 mpg is about 255 knots still fast

Click on the link above and look at his most recent flight. I saw 352mph.

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13 minutes ago, Tim Jodice said:

You have fans! @Jonny Serious question for all. When was the last time the CEO of Mooney used his own Mooney to literally go across the country? Thats some great advertising. 

And there ya have it!  Go Jonny, go!  Go Mooney, go !

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Indy speeds represent the fastest speeds an ordinary person can travel a long distance...

Indy cars average around 220mph around the 2.5 mile track...

They have peak speeds of around 240mph on the back straight...

And have to stop a few times to get fuel and tires to complete a 500 mile journey...

Support to do all that requires a team of dozens of people...

The fuel used is somewhat specialized, not available everywhere...

In the end, they have traveled 500mi, and ended up exactly where they started...

Putting the vehicle away will take a bunch of man hours to clean up and get set up for it’s next use...


Compare that to the accomplishments of this single flight...

Nearly 1000 miles...  in about 3:20 of time...

Nice tail wind to sort of help out...

There aren’t 500k people sitting in the stands watching...

No television cameras, or interviews going on...

Not a single tire getting changed....

Fill her up, pre-flight check, repeat...

 

Just a man and a machine... gone modern day sailing....  :)

Wonder if he had lunch, or brought a friend along for the ride...?  (Try that in an Indy cockpit...)

 

Modern day sailor...

Modern day Victor Kayam... Who liked his Remington shaver so much, he bought the company... (aka Shaver Stadium, before... Schaefer, After... Gillette)

There are other faster race cars... that approach this speed... in a perfect straight line, but, for only a quarter of a mile...  the cockpit is so tight, not even a water bottle fits inside... their top speed is only measured for a short distance...

Go Jonny Go!

Best regards,

-a-


 

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I once had a girl I was seeing accuse me of being at a “Gentleman’s establishment” one night because her friend saw my car parked there.  Unfortunately I drove a silver Mercedes and they made more than a couple of those.  And my car was at my shop because I drove a customer’s car home to put miles on for QC (his idea).  Imagine how much less frustrating that call would have been if we had “CarAware” and not just FlightAware.  Though that could be equally incriminating.......  thankfully the car was around for A LOT longer than that mistake.  


Poor Jonny, everybody here knows he made it in time for dinner.

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Question/suggestion for @Jonny

I know that the focus is on MGTOW increases for long bodies, but what is the possibility of a, shall we say, “Encore Lite” upgrade for the K models?

The full Encore conversion for my 252 gets me an extra 230 lbs of GW in return for an expensive modification to get 10 more HP, dual puck brakes (and expensive new doors gear doors to accommodate them) and new flight control balance weights. 

How about a mod that gives me the extra GW while accepting slightly reduced TO, Climb and Landing performance by keeping the existing engine and brakes? So just new counterweights to handle the higher GW and new performance tables to reflect the higher GW with the same 210 HP and single puck brakes? The ASI would still have to be re-marked to reflect the new stall speed but the expensive engine and gear mods could be avoided.

And thanks for your active presence on this forum.

Regards,

Mark

 

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1 hour ago, squeaky.stow said:

Question/suggestion for @Jonny

I know that the focus is on MGTOW increases for long bodies, but what is the possibility of a, shall we say, “Encore Lite” upgrade for the K models?

The full Encore conversion for my 252 gets me an extra 230 lbs of GW in return for an expensive modification to get 10 more HP, dual puck brakes (and expensive new doors gear doors to accommodate them) and new flight control balance weights. 

How about a mod that gives me the extra GW while accepting slightly reduced TO, Climb and Landing performance by keeping the existing engine and brakes? So just new counterweights to handle the higher GW and new performance tables to reflect the higher GW with the same 210 HP and single puck brakes? The ASI would still have to be re-marked to reflect the new stall speed but the expensive engine and gear mods could be avoided.

And thanks for your active presence on this forum.

Regards,

Mark

 

Early Bravos had single piston brake calipers at a higher gross weight.

Clarence

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  • 1 month later...

Hey Folks - Been off of here for a while dealing with the ice storm in Texas and plans for a new version of the Ultra.

The factory took a hit but we're back up and running. No Back Springs came in last week so those of you who were grounded are hopefully up and running again - we are on order for more.

Also, wanted to alert everyone that we're selling N197CV, the Ultra Ovation Prototype. It's a beautiful plane, only has 300 Hrs, will have a 1 year tip to tail warranty and I just put new seats in it. Also, it's NXi Phase II! If you're interested, hop onto the Mooney website and have a look - it's listed under New Factory Sales.

Hope you're all safe and well!

Jonny

 

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