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Fixed Gear Mooney Market


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Just for grins and provocation -

With the new Mooney owners what about a new mid-body offering with IO 4 banger and a fixed gear w/ a parachute and GW increase?

The airframe is already certified (nothing to recertify), the 4 banger for economy and reasonable speed,

Mid-body because of the 4 banger

I was told long ago that they had or could design a fixed gear for the Mooney with only a couple knots penalty in cruise speed. Shouldn't be too big a step to certify that alone and that alone would cut weight and complexity and cost to manufacture with a negligible speed penalty. The airframe mounts are already certified for that in the D model. One could close off all the holes underneath for the retract gear for a cleaner flow below (think less drag)

Factor in a Gross Weight Increase as they are talking about (some might be the less gear weight) to allow a chute (Heaven's Forbid!) and some additional useful load with 4 onboard. 

Now we have 2 doors already and maybe a bigger market with no suck'em ups to be forgotten on landing that raises the insurance prices AND maybe easier for low time pilots to get into aviation in a fixed gear airplane. 

Design the panel with discrete  components that could be changed out without being tied to the TC of the airplane. Factory could offer a basic IFR panel and a full blown bells and whistle panel.

Garmin A/P or preferably the Trutrak if it ever gets out. 

Where might this market go or should I say- competition for the plastic airplane?

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Nice work, Cliffy!

So many people like to point out how it will never work...

Then there are people that can outline what it takes to make it work!

I just got schooled...   :)

 

What is needed.... wanted?

1) 4 seat seat layout...

2) 4 cylinder, fuel injected... IO390 or similar...

3) Constant speed prop... TopProp or MT, Aluminum or composite?

4) Fixed gear, intended to absorb the shock of landing under a parachute

5) Parachute, intended to handle the weight of the plane At MGTW...

6) Composite Roof with channels for the storage load carrying straps...

7) Steel frame adjustments to include the extra door and parachute strap mounts...

8) High G seats, with decent seatbelts/airbags.... ?

9) A panel that includes some niceties GPS nav, basic AP, a LVL button... Attractive to the new owner crowd... non-pilot crowd...

10) 52gallons of fuel...

11) upgrades....   :)


See if I captured that correctly..?

I watched a few Mike Patey videos where he selected the hardware for putting a chute in his Scrappy project... and fully integrated into the airframe... and did a test of the rocket launch... (YouTube worth watching)

Best regards,

-a-

Is there anything left from the Mooney M10 project that would make a good starting point for this project?

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2 hours ago, cliffy said:

Just for grins and provocation -

With the new Mooney owners what about a new mid-body offering with IO 4 banger and a fixed gear w/ a parachute and GW increase?

The airframe is already certified (nothing to recertify), the 4 banger for economy and reasonable speed,

Mid-body because of the 4 banger

I was told long ago that they had or could design a fixed gear for the Mooney with only a couple knots penalty in cruise speed. Shouldn't be too big a step to certify that alone and that alone would cut weight and complexity and cost to manufacture with a negligible speed penalty. The airframe mounts are already certified for that in the D model. One could close off all the holes underneath for the retract gear for a cleaner flow below (think less drag)

Factor in a Gross Weight Increase as they are talking about (some might be the less gear weight) to allow a chute (Heaven's Forbid!) and some additional useful load with 4 onboard. 

Now we have 2 doors already and maybe a bigger market with no suck'em ups to be forgotten on landing that raises the insurance prices AND maybe easier for low time pilots to get into aviation in a fixed gear airplane. 

Design the panel with discrete  components that could be changed out without being tied to the TC of the airplane. Factory could offer a basic IFR panel and a full blown bells and whistle panel.

Garmin A/P or preferably the Trutrak if it ever gets out. 

Where might this market go or should I say- competition for the plastic airplane?

If we ever saw a revival of the J/201 this would genuinely be a no brainer. Keep the composite cabin that is on the ultra series, fixed gear, Cont/Titan IO-370 or Lycoming IO-390, G3X based avionics... However, I believe this is all pretty unlikely.

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Just now, xavierde said:

Fixed gear would likely mean lower insurance premiums. I couldn't believe what my hangar neighbor is paying for a 182 with similar hull coverage.

Part of the difference is certainly the gear. But part is that our higher speeds [yes, even my C is faster than most 182s . . . ] exposes us to more weather, with greater variation on a single flight leg. And weather-related accidents are high on the fatality list. Not sure where our Mooneys fall on the frequency list, though.

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12 hours ago, Hank said:

Part of the difference is certainly the gear. But part is that our higher speeds [yes, even my C is faster than most 182s . . . ] exposes us to more weather, with greater variation on a single flight leg. And weather-related accidents are high on the fatality list. Not sure where our Mooneys fall on the frequency list, though.

Also a big part of insurance premiums is the cost of parts. A 182 can be built many times over from the junk in your average aviation salvage yard. 
 

-Robert  

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Agree with all said above but may offer some points worth considering.

  • Continental Diesel CD170 instead of the Avgas burners: Take Jet Fuel wherever.
  • I'd go for 64 USG as in the F/J. 1000 NM range today is pretty much standard for a plane designed for travel.
  • Fixed gear can be done, that much is sure.
  • Dynon Skyview panel with Avidyne 540/440 and DCF90 AP would do the trick, EDM for Engine instruments. As the entry level panel. Offer G1000 as option.
4 hours ago, Lance Link said:

Cirrus sells a ton more SR22s than SR20s.

Yes BUT! The SR20 is the entry level model which gets people to enter the shop. They then leave with an SR22, but that does not mean the SR20 is not important for their line up, they would have discarded it long time ago..

It's like those 99 cents offers at your local fast food. It gets people into the shop but hardly anyone will buy it but get the $5 family bucket instead. Or that $5000 new flashy car displayed at the car dealership... practically nobody will walk out without air condition and automatic transmission so they go for the $15k model instead but gee does this 5000 $ car look attractive from afar.

That is why an entry level model is so important. They must be willing to build a few but primarily they bring the customers into your dealership.

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How many hours did it take to build the pre-J mooney’s? I get that all the molds were sold to Mexico as lead. Not the question - how many hours to build a C/E/F?

A Johnson Bar should reduce the build time if it is retractable...

The new carbon fiber cowl, too, should reduce time...

I know people that work and become world champions reducing a second here, a second there...having spent weeks and weeks at mooney and observing their work schedule (not ethic) and counting dozens of employees as friends, I’ve gotta believe there are tons of places to optimize and reduce time...which equals money.

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6 minutes ago, glbtrottr said:

How many hours did it take to build the pre-J mooney’s? I get that all the molds were sold to Mexico as lead. Not the question - how many hours to build a C/E/F?

A Johnson Bar should reduce the build time if it is retractable...

The new carbon fiber cowl, too, should reduce time...

I know people that work and become world champions reducing a second here, a second there...having spent weeks and weeks at mooney and observing their work schedule (not ethic) and counting dozens of employees as friends, I’ve gotta believe there are tons of places to optimize and reduce time...which equals money.

Unfortunately, dividing total payroll hours by number of planes produced results in a number with no meaning. What is needed is the actual number of labor hours at each step of the manufacturing and assembly process. If a riveter works on a wing for 5 hours but is paid 8 hours to keep him around, the obvious solution is to have more riveting work, or to find other work for the riveter to do. Can the job be completed in 4 hours? Then two wings sections can be built in a day. Etc., etc.

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Manufacturing engineering benefits from a steady stream of orders coming in...
 

Wait... steady isn’t as much of a requirement...  :)

Edit/repost...

Manufacturing benefits from a stream of orders...
 

Go Sales!

Best regards,

-a-

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