DavidVF6113 Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 What's the difference other than the windows on the 1964 vs 1965 M20E Super 21 ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 There are a handful of updates that came out in the one model year change... Details that are best looked up... They won’t change very much... but if you like things like fuel separators and flush fuel caps, and what type of rivets got used where... And who owned the Mooney company at the time... Find the spreadsheet that details the differences from year to year... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0nathan225 Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 the '64 has smaller curved rear windows, the step retracts via a manual crank. Those are the 2 big differences I noticed going from a 65 to a "newer" '64 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 And that hand cranked step can probably be upgraded to an electric Servo version... If really interested... find Rob... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 The early engine cowls were held on with about 120 screws, the next ones had side panels held on with Camloc fasteners reducing the count somewhat. The balance of the airframe is quite similar. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 Cowl bumps for M20Es... fuel injector clearance? I like the dzus 1/4 turn fasteners on the cowl side cheeks the best! Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidVF6113 Posted September 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: Here it is. It doesn’t add much that hasn’t already been mentioned, though. Oh, also, ‘64 E models have little cowling bumps on them that ‘65 and later models don’t. http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm Jim Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPetersen Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 PC, windows, step. Yep, that was a big model year change in those days. I was working for a Mooney distributor for both years. ‘65 was a pretty good year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lloyd Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Ailerons on the '65 and later were a different shape than prior years. Forces were lighter allowing the PC to do it's thing. A lot of the earlier models go the later ailerons if an autopilot was added later. Not only were the side windows a different shape but they were also lower by an inch and a half or so. I think the fuel quantity was changed sometime in 1963 from 48 to 52 gallons. All the E's were 52 gallons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidVF6113 Posted September 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 80% of my mission is 500 miles travel round trip for work weekly. It is just me in the plane most the time. Any recommendations. I was thinking the m20e fits the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, DavidVF6113 said: 80% of my mission is 500 miles travel round trip for work weekly. It is just me in the plane most the time. Any recommendations. I was thinking the m20e fits the mission. Any Mooney in good mechanical condition will do. Go for as many avionics upgrades as you can find in a good Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Many people like the M20E for building a forever-plane... They get adorned with all kinds of nav equipment found in any modern ship... They can fit four adults, when you only have one plane... With the fuel injection and a nice engine monitor... LOP is a fun, cost saving, mechanism for operating... Great efficiency... The light weight airframe makes it a very efficient flyer as well... Like Hank above, I had an M20C... great plane! Many M20Cs have also become forever-planes... around the world... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 2 hours ago, carusoam said: Cowl bumps for M20Es... fuel injector clearance? I like the dzus 1/4 turn fasteners on the cowl side cheeks the best! Best regards, -a- Hmm, mine doesn’t have bumps... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Hmmm... the mystery of the M20E cowl bumps gets deeper.... @takair Rob, the electric Servo step... works with the wind up mechanical step as well as the vacuum operated step... yes? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, carusoam said: Hmmm... the mystery of the M20E cowl bumps gets deeper.... @takair Rob, the electric Servo step... works with the wind up mechanical step as well as the vacuum operated step... yes? Best regards, -a- Yes, we have two kits. One is a retrofit for the crank and the other for pneumatic steps. I do seem to recall a year with cowl bumps, but not 64. I think it was to give clearance to the corner of the dog house which showed signs of hitting the cowl on mine in the distant past... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 3 hours ago, carusoam said: Cowl bumps for M20Es... fuel injector clearance? I like the dzus 1/4 turn fasteners on the cowl side cheeks the best! Best regards, -a- It's my opinion, based on my '65E experience, the cowl bumps were an after thought due to the fact that the dog house would hit the inside of the cowling during some engine movement..............not injector clearance. Initial cowl design boo boo, and a quick fix with the humps. A little old factory birdie told that to me............just can't remember which one though........... LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Thanks Mitch! I ran out of likes early today... We would have to take the next steps to see what, if anything changed the dog house for the M20E... If the dog house got any larger to house the different valves or the FIs... The bumps aren’t very large at all... You would really have to know your Mooneys to have all these details in your memory... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 1 minute ago, carusoam said: Thanks Mitch! I ran out of likes early today... We would have to take the next steps to see what, if anything changed the dog house for the M20E... If the dog house got any larger to house the different valves or the FIs... The bumps aren’t very large at all... You would really have to know your Mooneys to have all these details in your memory... Best regards, -a- Did a quick web search of images and quickly came across a random ‘65 with cowl bumps. Can be seen in the image in the link here: http://www.mountainskyaviation.com/mooney.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 Just now, bluehighwayflyer said: Yep. That’s them. And that is clearly a ‘65 model. Sorry for the misinformation, then. I thought they were a ‘64-only thing. I do believe, however, that they were a bandaid for some unknown issue as they were relatively quickly abandoned. Jim I wouldn’t the surprised if they appear on some serial numbers of both years...just don’t recall seeing them on a 64....yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said: Yep. That’s them. And that is clearly a ‘65 model. Sorry for the misinformation, then. I thought they were a ‘64-only thing. I do believe, however, that Mitch is correct that they were a bandaid for something as they were relatively quickly abandoned. Jim I could be very wrong.................I've been known to make a mistake or two.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted September 14, 2020 Report Share Posted September 14, 2020 8 hours ago, carusoam said: Thanks Mitch! I ran out of likes early today... We would have to take the next steps to see what, if anything changed the dog house for the M20E... If the dog house got any larger to house the different valves or the FIs... The bumps aren’t very large at all... You would really have to know your Mooneys to have all these details in your memory... Best regards, -a- At least some 64s had the #1 cylinder outer (valve cover) doghouse baffle mounted on the inside of the valve cover flange. This effectively gave another 1/2” clearance. Mine were on the outside when I bought the plane but I have moved it inside since. I think the parts manual shows it this way for the 64s, but those were not very detailed sketches. I suspect someone forgot why they did that or decided it was a real pain to get it in place and opted to try bumps. I suspect the left side is for symmetry only. The #1 cylinder is the one that is most forward. I also suspect that somewhere after 64 or 65 the entire front of the cowl got slightly wider near the front, top. This may explain why @Sabremech had issues with a common front end cowl. Will be curious if David could validate this theory. Probably does not impact the LASAR mod as much, since it is only the lower cowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocks Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 I have to revive this topic. I'm looking to upgrade a 1964 E with a GFC500 autopilot and I ran into 2 issues that sparked this research. First, the serial number is too early of an E to be included in the STC for the Garmin autopilot... yet. Rumor is that they will add it soon. However, having said that, it raised a couple of questions that I am unable to answer on my own and wanted to see if any of you could help. This '64 E, came with a factory installed ARC512 autopilot (I think just like that weird Cessna one from back then). Apparently the aileron forces were too strong and the AP became inop. So Mooney removed the AP's and the following year, changed to a different aileron in '65. (Nothing in these logs about changing ailerons for this plane though) I have no idea if I have the "old" ailerons or the "new" ones and assume I can ask my AP about it. But is there any way to tell from a glance? Also, if they are the "old" style, I wonder if it would be necessary to change them to the "new" style before adding the new GFC500 - pending approval. Also, would it just be better to change the ailerons to the "new" style, regardless? How much of a pita is aileron swapping? Ohh airplanes... hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 You probably have the old style ailerons (picture below). The easiest way to tell is the trailing edge of the aileron, the old style is cambered on the bottom, the new is more symmetrical top to bottom. New style ailerons can be swapped out for the old, but you may not like the price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocks Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Andy95W said: You probably have the old style ailerons (picture below). The easiest way to tell is the trailing edge of the aileron, the old style is cambered on the bottom, the new is more symmetrical top to bottom. New style ailerons can be swapped out for the old, but you may not like the price. Any clues with this shot? Looks pretty symmetrical on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Shane, it looks cambered from here... one person that may be familiar with aileron swapping would be Alan Fox... Waiting on Garmin to get further down the Mooney chain might not be so terrible... they are making headway... The 65C got a handful of changes all at once... so if you don’t have the Brittain wing leveler... you probably do have the old style ailerons... Part numbers will give the true answer... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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