Flying during smoke and fires

[Joe Larussa]

Does anyone have any concerns flying while it’s raining ash? Getting some good IFR time but any worries on the mechanical side? 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Joe Larussa

[PT20J]

Smoke particulate is generally less than a micron so it passes right through the air filter. I don’t know how abrasive it is. Bigger concern is probably breathing the stuff. It takes a N95 mask to filter it.

Skip

[MooneyMike]

It is not pleasant. This was on Wednesday.  NorCal Approach was really busy, so they sent us to 9000 and handed us off to Oakland Center. No biggie but the air quality was worse the higher we got. 

 

[Guest]

There are lots of toxins in smoke, more harmful for humans than engines.

Clarence

[Igor_U]

I didn't think it would be harmful to the engine but better be IFR current. At the moment all west coast from BC to CA is IFR...

 

[ArtVandelay]

Might consider changing oil more frequently.

[Joe Larussa]

If my plane is going to be okay, I wonder if hooking up the O2 would be a plus for my health. Hate the smoke but enjoying the IFR.

[RobertGary1]

Got my 6 in 6 in. Loving it. 
 

-Robert 

[jlunseth]

A nasal cannula on a free flow system will only give you a few percentage point increase in O2. Normal concentration in air is 21%, normal flow from a cannula will yield a percentage still in the 20s, so you did not replace much FU. If you crank the O2 up, the best you can hope for is a total of about 40% O2, of which 21 percentage points was the stuff that already was accompanied by FU, so you have replaced only about 20 percentage points of the FU (40 minus the existing 21% O2=19 percentage points). A mask will get you only another 10 percentage points. You will still get a pretty strong dose of whatever is in the FU. Better than nothing, but probably not very much.

Better than nothing I suppose.

Edited September 12, 2020 by jlunseth

[Ragsf15e]

I flew in bad smoke a couple years ago and noticed weird black rings on the paint behind all the rivets.  It came off, but there was definitely nasty stuff in that smoke!

flew from Spokane to Boise to Salt Lake yesterday and was above smoke layer at 11,500’ the whole way.  Fires everywhere!

[PT20J]

I flew float Beavers in Ketchikan for a couple of years during Canadian wildland fires and had my fill of flying in smoke. You guys must really be hurting for IMC time to fly in that stuff without getting paid to do it 

[kmyfm20s]

I flew through some bad smoke this past Tuesday here in San Diego. Many times I get an IFR to VFR on top clearance to get through the marine layer, this time I was glad I filed a complete flight plan. It surprised me how much smoke was above the layer and progressively got worse until I had no reference at all.

 

 

The week before we flew up to the San Juan Islands in Washington. To be sure we didn’t get into the smoke I flew the coast all the way up which added an hour to the flight. Marine layer over the water and smoke over the land all the way up in california. Didn’t get to see any of the awesome coast line. We could have probably gone over land and got above the smoke easy enough but had the baby on board so tried to stay at a lower altitude for the long flight. TFR’s and tall mountains on the direct route.

 

[jlunseth]

Brings back a memory. I flew with an uncle once in a C55 Baron from Albuquerque to Los Angeles. I was probably 16 and it was about 1965. It was the smog era, and the smog was so bad an instrument approach was necessary. Fugly orange stuff.  I was the HAP (Human Auto Pilot) from ABQ to LAX. At LAX we shot an approach. We were right at the runway and could not see it in the middle of the day. My uncle radio’d tower: “LA Tower, Nectar Five Seven Four Six Victor, can you turn the runway lights up full.” The response was that they already were. My memory is that we were under 100 feet when the runway showed up under our feet, but it was a long time ago and I was just a kid. “Nectar” was the “November” of that day. I am no fan of CA politics, but auto pollution has certainly changed in the last 55 years. 

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, jlunseth said:

  I am no fan of CA politics, but auto pollution has certainly changed in the last 55 years. 

I remember as a kid the pollution was so bad in the basin. It’s a lot better  nowadays (when there isn’t a fire). 

 

-Robert 

[Mooney in Oz]

Earlier this year saw probably the worst bushfires in history on the south east of Australia. I recall flying between Sydney and Canberra at 15,000 feet in a pressurised twin turbo prop still in smoke and in similar viz as can be seen in @kmyfm20sphoto. You can't escape the smell of smoke in a pressurised aircraft.  I also recall seeing the formations of pyro-cumulonimbus cloud, one of which on another day caused the fatal crash of a fire truck killing the young driver. It was reported a micro burst event from a PCC had caused the fatality. 

I was devastated to learn that 3 brave American firefighting crew, the Captain, First Officer and Flight Engineer died on board an Oregon based Coulson Aviation Herc C-130 while fire bombing when the aircraft flew into an area of low visibility and crashed into the side of a mountain. No doubt many of you will remember this.

Those 3 brave souls died while trying to help us, away from their families on the other side of the world.

Ironically after a couple of months good rainfalls eventuated that broke the drought and returned dam levels to near 100% capacity making for very happy farmers.

I just hope the rains happen your way and bring some normality back to the lives of those who are affected. 

[MooneyMitch]

1 minute ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Earlier this year saw probably the worst bushfires on history on the south east of Australia. I recall flying between Sydney and Canberra at 15,000 feet in a pressurised twin turbo prop still in smoke and in similar viz as can be seen in @kmyfm20sphoto. You can't escape the smell of smoke in a pressurised aircraft.  I also recall seeing the formations of pyro-cumulonimbus cloud, one of which on another day caused the fatal crash of a fire truck killing the the young driver. It was reported a micro burst event from a PCC had caused the fatality. 

I was devastated to learn that 3 brave American firefighting crew, the Captain, First Officer and Flight Engineer died on board an Oregon based Coulson Aviation Herc C-130 while fire bombing when the aircraft flew into an area of low visibility and crashed into the side of a mountain. No doubt many of you will remember this.

Those 3 brave souls died while trying to help us, away from their families on the other side of the world.

Ironically after a couple of months good rainfalls eventuated that broke the drought and returned dam levels to near 100% capacity making for very happy farmers.

I just hope the rains happen your way and bring some normality back to the lives of those who are affected. 

Hoping for the return of normality for humanity in many ways.

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

I remember as a kid the pollution was so bad in the basin. It’s a lot better  nowadays (when there isn’t a fire). 

 

-Robert 

I also recall existing in the Southern California SMOG during the early 60's.  One could taste the pollution, as one delivered the Valley News and Greensheet.

[EricJ]

I took this yesterday in Arizona.   That's Roosevelt Lake and Four Peaks just east of Phoenix.   It's been worse than that here, that's just how it was yesterday am.

Volcanic ash is definitely something to avoid, but I've never heard of smoke or soot being a serious issue for an engine.
 

Edited September 12, 2020 by EricJ

[Mooney in Oz]

Just something else I thought of that I experienced during the bushfires in relation to visibility reported at uncontrolled airports.

I found that when there was thick smoke in the area of the destination airport, the viz that would be broadcast electronically on what we call the AWIS (your terminology ASOS) was grossly understated as the sensors measure moisture and smoke is not moisture. Eg: viz recorded at 5,000 metres was actually less than 100 metres due to smoke. Some RNAV approaches ended up as missed approaches.

The USA may have better sensor technology to be able to detect smoke viz as well as moisture, however if not, it should be a consideration when flying to such airports.

[Joe Larussa]

1 hour ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Just something else I thought of that I experienced during the bushfires in relation to visibility reported at uncontrolled airports.

I found that when there was thick smoke in the area of the destination airport, the viz that would be broadcast electronically on what we call the AWIS (your terminology ASOS) was grossly understated as the sensors measure moisture and smoke is not moisture. Eg: viz recorded at 5,000 metres was actually less than 100 metres due to smoke. Some RNAV approaches ended up as missed approaches.

The USA may have better sensor technology to be able to detect smoke viz as well as moisture, however if not, it should be a consideration when flying to such airports.

Just got back from some IFR smoke flying. Our non-towered airport was calling it 5 mile visibility. I didn’t see the runway till about 600 feet and 1.5 miles. Not even close!

[RobertGary1]

Flown in California fires for many years but I don’t think I’ve ever seen this visibility. 
 

-Robert