231LV Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) I have a question. Recently, my son-in-law sent me a link on Facebook Marketplace for a Porsche Mooney for sale up in Canada. The asking is $140,000k. I thought the Porsche Mooney has an orphaned engine? Porsche, as I understand it, gave up the Type certificate for the engine back in the 1990's and announced they would no longer supply engine parts. I realize ModWorks out of Florida owned the STC to replace the Porsche engine with a Continental in the M20L until they were destroyed by a hurricane. I am unaware of anyone else picking up the STC from ModWorks and consequently, all the remaining M20L's were destroyed? In any event, I cannot understand how this airplane would be worth anything other than to scrap out for parts Edited September 7, 2020 by 231LV new information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 Canada has an Owner Maintenance Category for orphaned airplanes. Gives a lot of attitude for maintenance, but cannot be flown to the USA. Hard to convert back to Normal Category. My understanding is a lot of M20L's were converted either by the factory or Rocket Engineering? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 From another advert: "In 2004, the aircraft was modified with a Mooney M20R Ovation STC conversion ($120K) and everything "firewall forward” was replaced brand new! A factory-new Continental IO-550 (280HP) engine replaced its original Porche PFM 3200 (217HP) engine while the aircraft's interior, avionics, and instrument panel were all updated. N147MP was also recently repainted with an Ovation scheme ($10K)!" Aerodon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Aerodon said: From another advert: "In 2004, the aircraft was modified with a Mooney M20R Ovation STC conversion ($120K) and everything "firewall forward” was replaced brand new! A factory-new Continental IO-550 (280HP) engine replaced its original Porche PFM 3200 (217HP) engine while the aircraft's interior, avionics, and instrument panel were all updated. N147MP was also recently repainted with an Ovation scheme ($10K)!" Aerodon well, there you go. I've heard people complain about UL. I wonder how the engine change impacts it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missile=Awesome Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 The UL makes the conversion planes NOT appealing. I would like to hear a Porsche powered PFM. Would be fun to go for a flight in the “orphan”. Ownership? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missile=Awesome Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 The hurricane was a convenient “out” for Porsche. I feel bad for owners. NOT Porsche’s “finest hour”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missile=Awesome Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 The interior/Engine Controls were beautiful and ahead of their time. The longbody PFM was underpowered and was a sales nightmare when stacked up next to a J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 Mooney made lemonade out of a lemon........TLS and Ovation, etc ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) As far as I know this Mooney is still Porsche powered and strangely is not listed on the Owner Maintenance list in Canada. The M18 and early M20/A models are. Clarence Edited September 7, 2020 by M20Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 ...and not to forget the unicorn Liquid rocket. exactly 5 of those M20L were converted by rocket engineering to a special and very rare variant of a Mooney rocket. The usual mooney rocket is a M20K converted with a standard continental TSIO520NB. A liquid rocket is a M20L that rocket engineering put a TSIOL550 - a liquid cooled 550. There is a mostly closed cowl and a cooling pipe that runs the length and an outlet at the back of the plane. It has 350hp and it also is reported to have gussets to strengthen the frame for higher speeds. Since its all hearsay from where I sit what actual performance is, I have heard top speeds as high as 260TAS and mid 220's in the mid teens. I also heard they are a bear to maintain. But quite a find. There's some zingy lemonade from some tangy lemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, aviatoreb said: ...and not to forget the unicorn Liquid rocket. exactly 5 of those M20L were converted by rocket engineering to a special and very rare variant of a Mooney rocket. The usual mooney rocket is a M20K converted with a standard continental TSIO520NB. A liquid rocket is a M20L that rocket engineering put a TSIOL550 - a liquid cooled 550. There is a mostly closed cowl and a cooling pipe that runs the length and an outlet at the back of the plane. It has 350hp and it also is reported to have gussets to strengthen the frame for higher speeds. Since its all hearsay from where I sit what actual performance is, I have heard top speeds as high as 260TAS and mid 220's in the mid teens. I also heard they are a bear to maintain. But quite a find. There's one here, sometimes, based at my newest home field. @Rocket_Driver? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 23 minutes ago, Hank said: There's one here, sometimes, based at my newest home field. @Rocket_Driver? Oh - cool! Do you know if the details I stated - 3rd hand - are all true? Ever been in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 A few M20Ls around here... https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=M20L&quick=1 Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Ellis Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 There is a guy based at Fort Worth Spinks where I am based that owns 2 Porsche M20L's. Both still have the Porsche engine and have not been converted. I have seen one of them up close when it was in for its annual at the shop I use at my airport. Interesting airplane. One is flown regularly and the other is basically used for parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 So which is the rarest bird? Porsche-powered M20-L, or TSIOL-550-powered M20-L??? In this thread, I've heard of 3 of the former that I didn't know about, and a count of 5 Liquid Rockets that I knew there were "only a few" of . . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LevelWing Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Here's a Liquid Rocket for sale: https://www.usaaircraft.com/aircraft-for-sale/10/1988-mooney-m20l-liquid-rocket-price-reduced 812lbs useful load and a 90 gallon tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, LevelWing said: Here's a Liquid Rocket for sale: https://www.usaaircraft.com/aircraft-for-sale/10/1988-mooney-m20l-liquid-rocket-price-reduced 812lbs useful load and a 90 gallon tank. M20L had the same landing gear as the original 252, I doubt that the M20L Liquid Rocket advertised has 812 useful load - more likely somehwere in the 600's. (Later, early into the M20M the useful load went up with dual puck brakes, etc.) If the UL is in the 600's, with 90 gallons of fuel, it better be one skinny pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Also I'm not sure that the five liquid rockets were all M20L's. I think at least two of the five started out as M20M's. (Converted before the much better Bravo mod was introduced.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 After Porsche made the announcement to discontinue support and offer a buyout, the early M20L adopters hoarded parts (valve springs, cylinders, complete engines), so it's very possible that the ones ones still flying are being maintained with new old stock parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, LANCECASPER said: Also I'm not sure that the five liquid rockets were all M20L's. I think at least two of the five started out as M20M's. That's interesting. How's the reliability of that TSIOL550 I wonder? I heard that the engine package came from some conversion offered by raam, so there might be at least some residual support for the engine setup http://www.ramaircraft.com/Engine-Pages/SM056C4-TSIOL-550A-Liquid-Cooled.htm Wow - $102 for that liquid rocket - somebody should get that and go fly very fast. Anyone here know the actual cruise speeds of that thing? As for me - I am intrigues but not interested - I really like what I have, and the more standard and widely deployed tsio520nb that the regional shops here have lots of experience with, and also my tks, and also that I have already fixed mine up quite a bit - as they say - love the one yer with. But I am intrigued - someone buy it and please take me for a ride! I want a ride in it ... more than I want to own it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, LANCECASPER said: After Porsche made the announcement to discontinue support and offer a buyout, the early M20L adopters hoarded parts (valve springs, cylinders, complete engines), so it's very possible that the ones ones still flying are being maintained with new old stock parts. Since its orphaned - I wonder if some parts could be custom made or otherwise modified from car parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, aviatoreb said: That's interesting. How's the reliability of that TSIOL550 I wonder? I heard that the engine package came from some conversion offered by raam, so there might be at least some residual support for the engine setup http://www.ramaircraft.com/Engine-Pages/SM056C4-TSIOL-550A-Liquid-Cooled.htm Wow - $102 for that liquid rocket - somebody should get that and go fly very fast. Anyone here know the actual cruise speeds of that thing? As for me - I am intrigues but not interested - I really like what I have, and the more standard and widely deployed tsio520nb that the regional shops here have lots of experience with, and also my tks, and also that I have already fixed mine up quite a bit - as they say - love the one yer with. But I am intrigued - someone buy it and please take me for a ride! I want a ride in it ... more than I want to own it... It's been for sale off and on over 10 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, aviatoreb said: Since its orphaned - I wonder if some parts could be custom made or otherwise modified from car parts? Legend has it that the valve springs in a Porsche 911 engine were the same but didn't have the aviation stamp on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, LANCECASPER said: Legend has it that the valve springs in a Porsche 911 engine were the same but didn't have the aviation stamp on them. Right - I have heard similarly - what are the rules then - its orphaned now right - so user produced/ackquired parts are they allowed? And goodness knows there are many car shops that know how to overhaul and maintain porche engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said: Legend has it that the valve springs in a Porsche 911 engine were the same but didn't have the aviation stamp on them. I know - I have seen it before online - and I am thinking at one point it was sale out of North Carolina? Maybe someone bought it and flew it awhile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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