GNS500 or 530W?

[J Bird]

Just purchased a 86 M20K 252 and hope to have the plane in Boston by early September. I've been thinking about upgrading the avionics but in stages as the 252 still retains some of its original King avionics.

King kma 24 audio panel, King KY196 Comm, KLN90B GPS, KNS80 ( inop), KX165 Nav/Comm.

My goal is an IFD550, I really like the Avidyne IFD's and have the urge to just have it installed but at the same time I have to keep those urges in check for a few month's while I build funds.

Now, I know that the IFD is a direct slip in for the GNS, so I was thinking about installing a GNS 500 series and then upgrade as funds permits this way the Case, back plate , antenna and wiring is all there. While doing research and checking the market for the GNS box I found that the GNS 500 NON Nav/Com are decently priced compared to the 530W which on the market is still fetching a rather high price.

I also thought about upgrading the audio panel with a PAR200B which have the Comm built in, install a GNS 500 TAWS and scrap the KY196 and KNS 80 since its inop.

Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. 

 

J Swan

Edited August 18, 2020 by J Bird

[Gagarin]

One feature of the GNS 530 I like is that the COM/NAV frequencies for each airport are already stored in the unit easy to retrieve without the need of charts. 

[carusoam]

One thing I like about MS...

There are few pull-outs that members post for sale...

One MSer sells pre-flown avionics around here... find Alan...

For really good prices on new stuff Chase lists thing that go on sale...

Best regards,

-a-

[J Bird]

10 minutes ago, Gagarin said:

One feature of the GNS 530 I like is that the COM/NAV frequencies for each airport are already stored in the unit easy to retrieve without the need of charts. 

I would like to have a 530W but at almost double the cost of 500TAWS im not sure I can justify it to later upgrade to the IFD550

[J Bird]

15 minutes ago, carusoam said:

One thing I like about MS...

There are few pull-outs that members post for sale...

One MSer sells pre-flown avionics around here... find Alan...

For really good prices on new stuff Chase lists thing that go on sale...

Best regards,

-a-

I saw the GTN650 that came up from Alan but I was still undecided on what model I wanted.

[larryb]

I recommend care with used avionics. You may find that avionics shops are reluctant to install a used box. They make a significant profit selling you new boxes. But they don't get that with a used box you bring in. You may also find they will charge you more for install to make up for the loss of the sale. You may find that the used route costs more, especially if something happens to be wrong with your new box and has to go to the mfg for service. Bottom line, I would be sure to have agreement with a shop to do what you propose before buying the used gear.

[kortopates]

Exactly right as Larryb advises above - its an entirely false picture to consider the cost based on the unit alone without the install cost. You really need to know what your final target  is going to be and recognize it's virtually never cheaper to not to do it in one upgrade. So to save total cost, it's usually best to just pay once and start enjoying it. If financing those cost are not feasible right now, perhaps save your money and wait till they are.

Also I personally couldn't imagine flying IFR with just one comm radio - at least not in the busy airspace I fly. 

Just my thoughts on it.

[jlunseth]

One issue with starting out with brand G and then going to brand A is that the buttonology may be completely different.  I know how my 430AW works inside and out but I would be very reluctant to hop in another aircraft with a different brand of GPS because I might find myself not knowing how to get there from here, when I really need to get there from here, i.e. activate an approach. Sure you can learn to make the switch, but you will definitely have to spend time doing that.

[gsxrpilot]

37 minutes ago, larryb said:

I recommend care with used avionics. You may find that avionics shops are reluctant to install a used box. They make a significant profit selling you new boxes. But they don't get that with a used box you bring in. You may also find they will charge you more for install to make up for the loss of the sale. You may find that the used route costs more, especially if something happens to be wrong with your new box and has to go to the mfg for service. Bottom line, I would be sure to have agreement with a shop to do what you propose before buying the used gear.

This is all true... but I've upgraded the panel in my 252 significantly and the only thing I bought from the Avionics shop was a single G5. Everything else was used or bought myself and brought to them for installation. The avionics shop was reluctant at first, but we worked it out. In the end, I paid roughly 50% of the estimates I got from several avionics shop for the same panel.

Buying used, discounted, etc. has worked out very well for me.

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, jlunseth said:

One issue with starting out with brand G and then going to brand A is that the buttonology may be completely different.  I know how my 430AW works inside and out but I would be very reluctant to hop in another aircraft with a different brand of GPS because I might find myself not knowing how to get there from here, when I really need to get there from here, i.e. activate an approach. Sure you can learn to make the switch, but you will definitely have to spend time doing that.

I did the self install of an IFD540 from a GNS530 and couldn't be happier with the change. There was just a small learning curve from the GNS to the IFD but the IFD just makes so much more sense. Going the other way would be difficult.

Just my $0.02

[gsxrpilot]

2 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Exactly right as Larryb advises above - its an entirely false picture to consider the cost based on the unit alone without the install cost. You really need to know what your final target  is going to be and recognize it's virtually never cheaper to not to do it in one upgrade. So to save total cost, it's usually best to just pay once and start enjoying it. If financing those cost are not feasible right now, perhaps save your money and wait till they are.

Also I personally couldn't imagine flying IFR with just one comm radio - at least not in the busy airspace I fly. 

Just my thoughts on it.

I'll agree that doing one install instead of several is a much cheaper way to go. 

I spent a year collecting parts as I could find them on Barnstormers, or on sale at @Avionics Source, etc. Eventually I had all the parts I wanted, sitting in boxes in house. It was still just one stay in the avionics shop to get it all installed.

A could of exceptions were the IFD540 and the PMA450 that I installed myself as they are true slide-in replacements for the old Garmin stuff. You can't beat $0 installation.

[J Bird]

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Exactly right as Larryb advises above - its an entirely false picture to consider the cost based on the unit alone without the install cost. You really need to know what your final target  is going to be and recognize it's virtually never cheaper to not to do it in one upgrade. So to save total cost, it's usually best to just pay once and start enjoying it. If financing those cost are not feasible right now, perhaps save your money and wait till they are.

Also I personally couldn't imagine flying IFR with just one comm radio - at least not in the busy airspace I fly. 

Just my thoughts on it.

I know exactly what your saying. BUT!!! this is why I'm leaning to GNS as the installation cost isn't lost going to IFD vs going to a 750xi. I can use the GNS and then afterwards sell and recoup some cost of the box and put that towards the IFD540 or 550 which would be a slip in when I'm ready. Right now whether its the GNS or 540 they will need to be installed, the difference Im looking at is the cost of the Box itself not the installation.

[J Bird]

49 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

One issue with starting out with brand G and then going to brand A is that the buttonology may be completely different.  I know how my 430AW works inside and out but I would be very reluctant to hop in another aircraft with a different brand of GPS because I might find myself not knowing how to get there from here, when I really need to get there from here, i.e. activate an approach. Sure you can learn to make the switch, but you will definitely have to spend time doing that.

I'm willing to spend that time, right now the GNS is a better choice than the KLN90B. I just can't find any good material so I can get familiar with the 90B GPS. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by J Bird

[J Bird]

37 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I did the self install of an IFD540 from a GNS530 and couldn't be happier with the change. There was just a small learning curve from the GNS to the IFD but the IFD just makes so much more sense. Going the other way would be difficult.

Just my $0.02

This is the path I want to take...GNS to IFD self install when im ready to get the IFD.

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, J Bird said:

This is the path I want to take...GNS to IFD self install when im ready to get the IFD.

The install took 10 minutes. 9 of those were spent reading the installation guide only to realize I didn't need any of it. It's been working perfectly for over three years now.

[kortopates]

11 minutes ago, J Bird said:

I know exactly what your saying. BUT!!! this is why I'm leaning to GNS as the installation cost isn't lost going to IFD vs going to a 750xi. I can use the GNS and then afterwards sell and recoup some cost of the box and put that towards the IFD540 or 550 which would be a slip in when I'm ready. Right now whether its the GNS or 540 they will need to be installed, the difference Im looking at is the cost of the Box itself not the installation.

If you are confident that you want the IFD540 or 550, then sure, your added cost is just what your resale value in the GNS unit.

But a big caution because currently you're not looking at just one install with the GNS500 followed by a slide in of the IFD - see why?

Only works with the GNS530W.

[J Bird]

My cousin installs avionics for the airports

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

The install took 10 minutes. 9 of those were spent reading the installation guide only to realize I didn't need any of it. It's been working perfectly for over three years now.

My cousin does the upgrade avionics for the ground vehicle at MCO,MIA, Disney Etc and he said the exact same thing. 

[J Bird]

Just now, kortopates said:

If you are confident that you want the IFD540 or 550, then sure, your added cost is just what your resale value in the GNS unit.

But a big caution because currently you're not looking at just one install with the GNS500 followed by a slide in of the IFD - see why?

Only works with the GNS530W.

Thank you I almost forgot the Nav/Comm wiring.

[CharlesHuddleston]

One additional thought about going with a 530W first, would be an option to trade that in on an IFD540 when you are ready to trade up. Not sure how long it will last, but this is currently a promotion with these guys: https://avionicssource.com/product/540-upgrade-530w/ or for the 550: https://avionicssource.com/product/ifd550-upgrade-530w/

 

Now obviously the other options will require avionics installation. Audio panel, WAAS antenna, wiring, etc.. bigger job, more time, more expense.

 

[J Bird]

Well, I'll have to figure things out, still have to get checked out in the 252 for the insurance, the plane is in AZ and I'm in Boston. Got to find an CFI comfortable with the equipment. I got my first quote came in today at $22K to install a IFD540.

Edited August 18, 2020 by J Bird

[FLYFST]

The install took 10 minutes. 9 of those were spent reading the installation guide only to realize I didn't need any of it. It's been working perfectly for over three years now.

Glad to hear about the ease of replacement, any interface challenge with other systems? What other interfacing systems do you have?

I am considering the IFD replacement but worried about interface issues with the rest of my installations. My ADS-B installation connects the GNS-530W to a GDL-88, FlightStream 210, and KT-76A. The GNS is also connected to a Century 2000 autopilot and a Century 360A HSI for coupled approaches.

Thanks - Hank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

20 minutes ago, J Bird said:

I'm willing to spend that time, right now the GNS is a better choice than the KLN90B. I just can't find any good material so I can get familiar with the 90B GPS. 

The KLN90B fell off the back of the truck when WAAS became the choice...

Don’t fall for the aging technology...

If you are installing a WAAS box, this makes sense...

Operating the 10year old boxes isn’t called buttonology... it is spin enter spin enter spin enter spin enter for each four letter waypoint...
 

Do what makes sense... for you.

But... there isn’t going to be saving the installation... by the time you are ready for the upgrade... the IFD will be planning another box that may be a GTN slide in...

Its good to look towards the future... but use reality as a guide...

Best regards,

-a-

[J Bird]

2 minutes ago, CharlesHuddleston said:

One additional thought about going with a 530W first, would be an option to trade that in on an IFD540 when you are ready to trade up. Not sure how long it will last, but this is currently a promotion with these guys: https://avionicssource.com/product/540-upgrade-530w/ or for the 550: https://avionicssource.com/product/ifd550-upgrade-530w/

 

Now obviously the other options will require avionics installation. Audio panel, WAAS antenna, wiring, etc.. bigger job, more time, more expense.

 

Charles I see the promo, this was a smart move on Avidyne part. I would be curious to see the figures on owners that went to Avidyne vs having the GTN series installed as it requires a complete new install.

[carusoam]

Many people have gone with the avidyne slide in... Plus a few wires and new antenna...
 

But, only if they had the G530 already...
 

If starting with a non-waas BK unit... it is a pull and replace and the economics aren’t as favorable...

 

Overall decide what is best for you... all one supplier, or a mix of other suppliers...

 

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[J Bird]

Just now, carusoam said:

The KLN90B fell off the back of the truck when WAAS became the choice...

Don’t fall for the aging technology...

If you are installing a WAAS box, this makes sense...

Operating the 10year old boxes isn’t called buttonology... it is spin enter spin enter spin enter spin enter for each four letter waypoint...
 

Do what makes sense... for you.

But... there isn’t going to be saving the installation... by the time you are ready for the upgrade... the IFD will be planning another box that may be a GTN slide in...

Its good to look towards the future... but use reality as a guide...

Best regards,

-a-

I absolutely agree with you. I wonder at times how long will the GNS be out on the market before it becomes a KLN90B.